Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ppcg4]

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2009/04/272_43003.html

Look at this dickhead.

[ESL Milk "Everyday]

I thought he was absolutely one hundred percent without a doubt right in everything he said.

[Xuanzang]

It`s a Catch-22. The old translation/grammar method was wrong. The new activities, songs, crafts based English learning is also wrong? There is no right way then.

[jkelly80]

The stories and song shit is to get them excited about English when they're kids and thereby lower their affective filter when they think of speaking another language, esp. English, when they get older. Once they're in HS/college, it's up to them to self motivate.

If they want to remain frogs in their well, then they will, but if you have half a brain and you're a son or daughter of Hanguk you'll put your ass to the grindstone at some point in your young adulthood and learn English (or even better Mandarin).

[Robot_Teacher]

Only a minority will master English enough to achieve conversation just like only a minority learns to sing and play guitar well enough to put on a memorable show. Only some students learn and their decision to do or not to do begins at a very young age. Public school is offering education to everyone to allow those with the intellect, the eagerness, and motivation, the opportunity to learn. I don't expect everyone to learn and perform, because some are just not going to get it whichever way you go about it. Best to let some non-performers slide as they're surely destined to be a truck driver, mechanic, or rice husker. Nothing wrong with that; someone needs to do lower paying work not requiring the high intellectual skills of the educated elite. Can't get everyone to speak fluently and go to college with aim to get a white collar job. English proficiency is considered a skill of the elite in Korea and other countries.

[harlowethrombey]

Most people that learn Algebra have little or no aptitude for it. Thus, learning algebra is a waste of time/we're teaching it wrong.


Whether Koreans should or shouldnt learn English is their decision.
But these sort of 'articles' arent very unique. Guess what, people thought kids done were learnin' English wrong in 'merika, too. That's why we have writing portfolios, standardized federal tests and all that other junk. And if every since person still isnt learning. . .then I guess we just must be teaching it wrong.

Not everyone can learn everything, but just as in learning basic algebra, learning an alternate language (English, Japanese, Chinese, Spanish, whatever) could be a doorway, or it could lead to nothing (guess how many times I year I find the calculus I studied useful?).

I believe such a horrible outcome is called. . . life.

[Unposter]

If so few are learning than why does everyone I meet in Seoul speak English?

If so few people need to use English than why do I meet so many people who use English at their job?

If Koreans are not learning English, than why is every new freshman class where I work better than the last?

Why do vertually all of my students go on to jobs which require them to know English if English is not important?

Okay, it is just one person's personal experience but so was the original article - not one citation in it.

Personally, I think there are two Koreas - ones who make an effort to learn English and those who don't. My experience is that those who actually make an effort do learn. And, by learn, I've met Koreans who can speak and write English flawlessly - better than many native speakers.

[ED209]

He seems to be basing Korea's low ranking on TOEFL scores on the folly of hagwons. He doesn't really go into who is taking the TOEFL tests. Isn't it a much older generation, many of whom didn't experience an education in English as many children do today? Maybe in another generation Korea's ranking will improve. The writers opinion is one shared by many, and I've often felt the same after a bad day of brain dead students. But every year I notice an improvement among the younger students coming to my school.

[waynehead]

The most progress I've ever seen from students was in my first year teaching, at a hagwon in which speaking Korean was not allowed.

Korean teachers need to start communicating in English in the classroom. Standing in front of a class of 40-50 kids speaking Korean to them is not the way to improve their conversation skills in a foreign language.

[in_seoul_2003]

I really hope that Korean media will one day stop obsessing over english.

I wonder if Koreans ever turn around and say, "F$$k!, we talk about English way too much in this country".

Every other day Koreans and a few idealistic foreigners foray into the dire world of english education and its remedies. Do they have nothing better to talk about?

[Cheonmunka]

My dad came over here. He doesn't do a lick of Korean so it was interesting how he said almost no one he met or asked things of on the street or in booth places, whathaveyou, could communicate in English with him. He did say some high school kids did okay, but that was an exception.

The problem lies in the testing system Koreans have implemented, AND IN WHICH MOST OF THE MONEY is spent, and that is with the grammar/vocab testing based on TOEFL and TOEIC for uni entrance.
Hakwons that make the most money don't actually employ native speakers. They employ people who know the tests, who aggregate which vocabulary is likely to appear in the next test, and they teach that and grammar parts.
The kids don't come away learning how to communicate, they come away with high test scores, an ability to read, and a knowledge of the meanings of academic words but no where to place them in a real-time sentence.

I've seen one of these tests. A question for example looks like this:
이젠 대화를 잘 듣고 맞는 단어를 골라서 체크해보세요.
a aggregate
b aggregated
c aggregation

That to me is not communication.

I worked a while with kids who had learned this way. Some are entering 'foreign' high schools (just names they give schools to make them seem good) and I tell yah, some don't even know an answer for the most basic question of 'How are you?.'

[ernie]

'fun and games' seems like a pretty effective strategy to me. give people a chance to actually enjoy learning and they might absorb something that stays with them past the midterm exam. play is how children acquire their first language, so why wouldn't it work for their second?

[some waygug-in]

It's not that fun and games can't be effective, it's that often they are not used to do anything productive. If games are only time wasters, then yes I would agree that they are not useful. If however the games are focused on language targets and have useful language lessons embedded in them, then they can be extremely useful.

Anyone who doesn't know this should check out David Paul's "Teaching English to Children in Asia".

[Yu_Bum_suk]

A very negative, repetative, simplistic analysis by someone who has never taught English. Perhaps one of these days people will focus more on what teachers and students can do - not what they can't - and approach English as a language, not a subject, in the classroom.

[ulsanchris]