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rokricky
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Location: Yongsan, Seoul
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 Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:52 am Post subject: Grammar question involving risen |
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Is this possible "Jesus is risen."?
I told my students it was wrong , that it should be "Jesus has risen" since risen is the p.p. form of the verb rise. But then she told me it was also an adjective. I actually didn't know that but when I looked it up indeed it is an adjective, a very rare adjective. So okay, if risen can be an adjective what the hell is the meaning of "Jesus is risen"?????? |
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muffintop
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Location: SK
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:17 am Post subject: "risen" |
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| It means he is living. It is in hymns and in praise. "Jesus lives". |
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greedy_bones
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Location: not quite sure anymore
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:20 am Post subject: |
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PPs go with "to be" all the time.
I am tired.
I am seen.
It is eaten.
It is gone. |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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greedy_bones gave some real interesting examples.
"is" can imply a routine with -en endings.
Your arc card is taken at immigration when you leave the country
Naengmyeon is eaten after one eats galbi.
Why not the -ed?
In Asian languages, it seems like -ed gets mixed with "become"
I am tired -> I have become tired
"gone" works a little differently. Even though it could also mean "become" (milk has gone sour), it has many meanings based on context. For example, "He is gone" meaning "he left" or "he will never come back, he is gone (forever)". Another one is "It's gone" (I lost it, implying stolen if there is hope of it "coming back" lol).
"Jesus is risen" when what? On what occassion is "Jesus risen"? I don't know my theology too well, nuthead atheist here, but my understanding is Jesus will rise once and take us or the elite on some magical mystery tour up through heaven to the welcome mat of God's pad.
Will Jesus do this multiple times? Maybe he can't fit everyone at one go  |
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bogey666
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Grammar question involving risen |
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| rokricky wrote: |
Is this possible "Jesus is risen."?
I told my students it was wrong , that it should be "Jesus has risen" since risen is the p.p. form of the verb rise. But then she told me it was also an adjective. I actually didn't know that but when I looked it up indeed it is an adjective, a very rare adjective. So okay, if risen can be an adjective what the hell is the meaning of "Jesus is risen"?????? |
I'm with you... Jesus has risen.
what kind of "definition" does this rare adjective give? as in someone who's resurrected?
use resurrected then.
if they want to speak English that might be "strictly correct" but will cause everyone to snap their heads and say/gesture - "what the phuck did he/just say?"
then go ahead, but you may want to explain that tidbit to them. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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An example of a sentence I would consider using risen as an adjective in:
"Every night, the wolves greet the risen moon by howling."
I think that's grammatically correct, fairly elegant, and perfectly acceptable. Since you can say "risen moon" you can also say "the moon is risen." We just rarely pair the adjective with is because of how we use it. |
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bogey666
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
An example of a sentence I would consider using risen as an adjective in:
"Every night, the wolves greet the risen moon by howling."
I think that's grammatically correct, fairly elegant, and perfectly acceptable. Since you can say "risen moon" you can also say "the moon is risen." We just rarely pair the adjective with is because of how we use it. |
I would accept the risen moon e.g.
I'm not so sure about the moon is risen, though I accept the logical extension of the use of the typical adjective.
in that case explain to the them that the natives would almost never use risen with to be.. as in "is risen". |
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pakenhamin
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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It seems to me that in this case the word "risen" is used to describe Jesus state after the resurrection.
In this case it is used to describe a person who has died, been dead for a period of time and has now come back to life.
In the same way we can also say that "John is not" where not is used to imply that he does not exist anymore i.e. dead. |
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bogey666
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:34 am Post subject: |
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these are stupid foibles because resurrection isn't something that's used in anyday language, and only refers to the fictional character of Jeesus with his fictional "resurrection".
something that does indeed rise, unlike Jeesus.... and every day too is the sun.
when you find a sentence written as "the sun is risen", get back to me. |
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ArizonaBill
Joined: 24 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Grammar question involving risen |
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| rokricky wrote: |
Is this possible "Jesus is risen."?
I told my students it was wrong , that it should be "Jesus has risen" since risen is the p.p. form of the verb rise. But then she told me it was also an adjective. I actually didn't know that but when I looked it up indeed it is an adjective, a very rare adjective. So okay, if risen can be an adjective what the hell is the meaning of "Jesus is risen"?????? |
The only time I've heard sentences like "Jesus is risen" is in poetic language, particularly when a Biblical connotation is intended, since "is risen," being an improper construction only heard in Biblical verses, implies that it's rising from the dead that's happening and not rising into the air or levitation, like "has risen" would imply. |
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