|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
 Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:46 am Post subject: Rasmussen Poll Indicates American Shift Toward Socialism |
 |
|
Home > Views
Published on Saturday, April 11, 2009 by CommonDreams.org
Rasmussen Poll Indicates American Shift Toward Socialism
by Kristin Schall
In an April 2009 poll conducted by Rasmussen, respondents were asked "which is a better system-capitalism or socialism?" Just 53% of adult Americans prefer capitalism, 20% of respondents favor socialism and 27% responded not sure. These figures suggest that Americans' attitudes toward alternatives to capitalism may be shifting and that we are living in a time that holds the potential to mark a radical change in the landscape of American politics.
The Rasmussen poll was conducted during one of the greatest economic crisises in the history of capitalism. The resulting pressure is forcing Americans to begin to think critically about ideas that they had previously accepted as given. With more and more people facing the prospect of losing their jobs, houses, healthcare, it is becoming increasingly difficult to ignore the inequalities and injustices of capitalism. What this has translated to is people becoming more open to ideas about alternative visions for structuring society. In short, socialism is back.
In addition to the economic crisis, the right wing's accusation of Obama being a socialist appears to be backfiring. Conservatives were attempting to cash in on a well established strategy of 20th century American political life. These attacks have unintentionally served to get socialism into heavy rotation in the mainstream media, thereby increasing the public's interest and curiosity. Fear mongering and the paranoid style seem to be offering declining political returns.
Perhaps the most significant aspect of this poll is the response from people under thirty. The statistics indicate that 66% of this demographic are actively questioning capitalism as a system. This makes clear that the Cold War fear of socialism, created to shape the American mindset, is withering away. It is being replaced by a political openness to new ideas about how to organize society. This means there is a space for socialists where a serious dialogue can begin, which can connect Americans to grassroots organizing.
[list=http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/04/11-6]Commondreams[/list] |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Its a wierd poll. Western Europe has shown for years that capitalism and socialism can overlap. Would anyone say Germany is not a capitalist country, simply because it has a large social safety net? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Kuros wrote: |
| Its a wierd poll. Western Europe has shown for years that capitalism and socialism can overlap. Would anyone say Germany is not a capitalist country, simply because it has a large social safety net? |
The problem is too many in America are ignorant of what goes on outside of America, and they've been brainwashed that everything that involves a community focused approached economics to some extent is communism, even if that economy has capitalism, banks, businesses, and what have you. Germany is certainly capitalist and so are Norway and France. Now, with the financial mess that was created, you've had to have massive nationalizing in the U.S. i.e. harking back to the New Deal type era. I think, personally, that the private sector had certain individuals controlling the government too much and economists who cared about social responsibility wouldn't have been listened to.
People saw what could have happened, but they said nothing, and those who did weren't listened to like Paul Krugman. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Kuros wrote: |
| Its a wierd poll. Western Europe has shown for years that capitalism and socialism can overlap. Would anyone say Germany is not a capitalist country, simply because it has a large social safety net? |
While there are elements of a free market in Germany, the rest of Europe and, for that matter the US, these countries are all essentially socialist countries.
Any country where the total amount of GDP consumed by the government exceeds 10% of total GDP is socialist.
Any country where the environment (air, water, rivers, lakes, parks etc.) is controlled by the government - which legalizes pollution of the air, water and land - is socialist.
Any country that requires government testing and licensing of workers prior to their being able to get a job (over 800 different occupations in the US) is socialist.
Any country where the government controls the education and health care of its citizens whether through regulation, licensing or direct provision, taxation or subsidization of said service - is socialist.
Any country that attempts to control the personal and moral choices and behavior of its citizens in any area including: free speech, drug, cigarette or alcohol use, abortion, travel, investment and retirement decisions, choice of marriage partners, use of seat belts and helmets, choice of personal protection devices including chemical defense or firearms, or any other matter of personal choice - is socialist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ontheway wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Its a wierd poll. Western Europe has shown for years that capitalism and socialism can overlap. Would anyone say Germany is not a capitalist country, simply because it has a large social safety net? |
While there are elements of a free market in Germany, the rest of Europe and, for that matter the US, these countries are all essentially socialist countries.
Any country where the total amount of GDP consumed by the government exceeds 10% of total GDP is socialist.
Any country where the environment (air, water, rivers, lakes, parks etc.) is controlled by the government - which legalizes pollution of the air, water and land - is socialist.
Any country that requires government testing and licensing of workers prior to their being able to get a job (over 800 different occupations in the US) is socialist.
Any country where the government controls the education and health care of its citizens whether through regulation, licensing or direct provision, taxation or subsidization of said service - is socialist.
Any country that attempts to control the personal and moral choices and behavior of its citizens in any area including: free speech, drug, cigarette or alcohol use, abortion, travel, investment and retirement decisions, choice of marriage partners, use of seat belts and helmets, choice of personal protection devices including chemical defense or firearms, or any other matter of personal choice - is socialist. |
When you put it like that, socialism sounds like a mighty fine thing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| When you put it like that, socialism sounds like a mighty fine thing. |
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
Kuros observed:
| Quote: |
| Its a wierd poll. Western Europe has shown for years that capitalism and socialism can overlap. Would anyone say Germany is not a capitalist country, simply because it has a large social safety net? |
Or, conversely, would anyone claim that China is not a socialist country, simply because it has almost no social safety net?
This poll has to be put into perspective although I'm sure all the Leftists on this forum are wetting their pants over it.
Fact is that the poll is partly if not mostly a reflection of the populist backlash to the recent string of corporate bailouts. Now, when we emerge from this recession, if the numbers still hold, we might have something.
Then again, we are becoming a nation of entitlement thanks to the liberals. Only now many would-be conservatives are jumping on the bandwagon. Witness the greed and lack of shame of so many bank and hedge fund execs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
soviet_man
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| What this has translated to is people becoming more open to ideas about alternative visions for structuring society. In short, socialism is back. |
Any movement away from capitalism is good.
However my sense is that grassroots participation on the ground in actual socialist groups remains low in the west.
The key to socialism in my view in light of the current situation, is to organize groups of progressive people: women, students, queers, environmentalists, refugees, migrants, unionists, the unemployed ... people who are already involved in their communities and to educate them about socialism.
As the other poster said, there is a political space opening for socialists that didn't exist before. It is a good sign. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Any country that attempts to control the personal and moral choices and behavior of its citizens in any area including: free speech, drug, cigarette or alcohol use, abortion, travel, investment and retirement decisions, choice of marriage partners, use of seat belts and helmets, choice of personal protection devices including chemical defense or firearms, or any other matter of personal choice - is socialist. |
(bold is mine)
Okay, this is what I meant when I was talking about libertarians making up their own definition of socialism.
According to what you've written above, a country that restricted marriage to male/female pairings, but otherwise had a total lack of government regulation and ownership in any other area of the economy or moral life, would be socialist.
But that understanding of socialism bears no resemblance whatsoever either to the dictionary definition, or to common usage. So I have to wonder from where it garners its legitimacy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Any country that attempts to control the personal and moral choices and behavior of its citizens in any area including: free speech, drug, cigarette or alcohol use, abortion, travel, investment and retirement decisions, choice of marriage partners, use of seat belts and helmets, choice of personal protection devices including chemical defense or firearms, or any other matter of personal choice - is socialist. |
(bold is mine)
Okay, this is what I meant when I was talking about libertarians making up their own definition of socialism.
According to what you've written above, a country that restricted marriage to male/female pairings, but otherwise had a total lack of government regulation and ownership in any other area of the economy or moral life, would be socialist.
But that understanding of socialism bears no resemblance whatsoever either to the dictionary definition, or to common usage. So I have to wonder from where it garners its legitimacy. |
In your example, the country would be socialist in only that one area of life. The rest of the country would be free.
However, in the nations of the world today, you can find very few areas of life that are free. In fact, I doubt you can find a single area of life that is not regulated, controlled, taxed, prohibited or owned either partially or in total by some level of government.
Other indicators of socialism:
Any country that taxes income of any person or group in any way or any amount - is socialist.
Any country that taxes the property of any person or group in any way or in any amount - is socialist.
Freedom is absolute.
Ask this question:
Who decides?
If you decide. If you are free to choose. If you can do anything you want to do that does not violate the personal or property rights of another person, then you are free.
If the government decides, you are not free. Your country is socialist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| In your example, the country would be socialist in only that one area of life. The rest of the country would be free. |
Well, thank you for the clarification, though I will point out that that isn't what you originally wrote. Again, note my highlights...
| Quote: |
| Any country that attempts to control the personal and moral choices and behavior of its citizens in any area including: free speech, drug, cigarette or alcohol use, abortion, travel, investment and retirement decisions, choice of marriage partners, use of seat belts and helmets, choice of personal protection devices including chemical defense or firearms, or any other matter of personal choice - is socialist. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Right now, the superrich and the poor are squeezing the middle class and lower upper class, which is increasing the number of poor Americans. After the elite move to Israel, Switzerland, et cetera and when it gets to the point that most of the middle class is impoverished, or at least poor relative to their 80s and 90s lifestyles, America will go communist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
