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| There should be no limits on free speech beyond that of common law. |
| A. Yes |
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56% |
[ 9 ] |
| B. No |
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31% |
[ 5 ] |
| C. Well, lets have a look at this more closely. |
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6% |
[ 1 ] |
| D. Freedom with responsiblity. |
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6% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 16 |
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| Author |
Message |
dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: Free speech poll. |
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There should be no limits on free speech beyond that of common law.
Any takers? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| How is this a current event? |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Does EVERY topic on the current events forum deal with CURRENT events?
No.
But most deal with issues that are similar to this. For example, ontheway wrote......
| Quote: |
| Any country that attempts to control the personal and moral choices and behavior of its citizens in any area including: free speech, drug, cigarette or alcohol use, abortion, travel, investment and retirement decisions, choice of marriage partners, use of seat belts and helmets, choice of personal protection devices including chemical defense or firearms, or any other matter of personal choice - is socialist. |
So, I think the poll is safe where it's at.
dmbfan |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| dmbfan wrote: |
Does EVERY topic on the current events forum deal with CURRENT events?
No. |
Let's see. Here's a snapshot of today's CE Forum:
| Quote: |
1,500 farmers commit mass suicide in India
7 mises 65 Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:19 pm
bacasper
Did you know Texas declared sovereignty?
[ Goto page: 1, 2, 3, 4 ] 57 Ya-ta Boy 652 Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:18 pm
Leslie Cheswyck
[ Poll ] Should Obama Control the Internet?
4 bacasper 25 Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:04 pm
dmbfan
US Airforce & Navy SEALS defeat 3 Somalis in a lifeboat
3 bacasper 31 Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:58 pm
bacasper
Number of Vermont Sex Offenders Keeps Growing
0 dmbfan 6 Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:38 pm
dmbfan
Kids Gone Wild
9 dmbfan 132 Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:23 pm
dmbfan
Teabagging Parties: Grassroots or Astroturf--You Decide
[ Goto page: 1, 2 ] 28 Ya-ta Boy 379 Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:34 pm
catman
With Obama in office, liberals learn to love war.
5 mises 63 Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:25 pm
bacasper
[ Poll ] Obama's Budget: Irresponsible
[ Goto page: 1, 2 ] 29 Kuros 304 Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:33 pm
Hater Depot
Why did this woman just do this...?
8 Gopher 258 Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:03 pm
bacasper
Is Canada a Banana Republic?
1 mises 35 Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:43 pm
anynag
The Nuremberg Precedent and the Obama Admnistration
1 mises 21 Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:39 pm
Hater Depot
America is a Banana Republic
[ Goto page: 1 ... 3, 4, 5 ] 71 Kuros 1053 Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:33 am
mises
The Depression Thread
[ Goto page: 1 ... 10, 11, 12 ] 166 mises 2894 Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:20 am
mises
EPA joins the 21st Century: C02 is a problem
0 Kuros 11 Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:06 am
Kuros
Bush 6 Indicted, Get a Reprieve
4 bacasper 62 Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:43 am
mises
Gecko's waitress found strangled in her cupboard
0 Trumpcard 62 Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:16 am
Trumpcard
Dubai appears to be a hellhole
[ Goto page: 1, 2, 3 ] 34 wayfarer 741 Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:15 am
ontheway
Van Olympics already an economic disaster
[ Goto page: 1, 2, 3 ] 44 mises 732 Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:14 am
CA-NA-DA-ABC
Marilyn Chambers is dead
7 On the other hand 183 Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:16 pm
BS.Dos.
Iraq To Execute Homosexuals Today
[ Goto page: 1, 2 ] 19 mises 562 Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:27 pm
loggerhead007
Gay Marriage Tipping Point?
[ Goto page: 1, 2 ] 22 Ya-ta Boy 356 Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:25 pm
loggerhead007
Congress member wiretapped?
1 Hater Depot 23 Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:49 pm
RJjr
Is America's Love Affair with Suburbia Over?
[ Goto page: 1, 2 ] 26 Adventurer 369 Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:34 pm
ernie
So, what does the Holocaust have to do with Israel anyway?
[ Goto page: 1 ... 3, 4, 5 ] 73 Trevor 1220 Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:55 pm
TheUrbanMyth
Rasmussen Poll Indicates American Shift Toward Socialism
11 Adventurer 157 Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:30 pm
RJjr
Interesting Articles and links regarding the Gaza crisis
[ Goto page: 1 ... 11, 12, 13 ] 187 Big_Bird 2486 Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:57 am
bacasper
More Obama changes...
13 bacasper 227 Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:45 am
bacasper
DHS Report Warns of Rising Right-Wing Extremism
[ Goto page: 1, 2, 3 ] 32 Kuros 333 Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:52 am
Ya-ta Boy
BEST OF ALL OUTCOMES: CAPTAIN FREED, SOMALI PIRATES KILLED
[ Goto page: 1, 2, 3 ] 42 ManintheMiddle 546 Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:31 am
Julius
Take Vermont.....please.
[ Goto page: 1, 2 ] 29 dmbfan 338 Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:01 am
bacasper
What to do about Somali pirates?
[ Goto page: 1, 2, 3 ] 30 Hater Depot 540 Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:13 am
Dimitris Stylianos
I thought it only happened in America!
6 bucheon bum 232 Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:45 pm
appolla
North Korea, Again
[ Goto page: 1, 2, 3 ] 40 Fox 392 Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:37 pm
mises
Swedish man accused of terrorism faces New York trial
1 mises 61 Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:04 pm
caniff
OBushama continues concealing torture
1 bacasper 37 Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:55 pm
Kuros
The Amero - for real this time?
6 bacasper 158 Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:57 pm
RJjr
Student killed in love triangle involving teacher
2 Tiger Beer 114 Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:41 pm
RJjr
Canadian Health-Care Good b/c of US Health Tech
0 Kuros 26 Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:40 am
Kuros
British police using kettling to contain protesters
[ Goto page: 1, 2, 3 ] 30 Big_Bird 573 Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:41 pm
Big_Bird
On Wiretapping, Obama Worse Than Bush
0 bacasper 49 Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:36 pm
bacasper
Canwest on the brink
0 mises 37 Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:16 pm
mises
[ Poll ] Hands up if you're tired of articles like this...
4 Rusty Shackleford 137 Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:59 pm
Rusty Shackleford
How to stop the drug wars
[ Goto page: 1, 2, 3, 4 ] 52 mises 857 Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:11 pm
mises
Have Sweeter Words EVER Been Spoken? |
With the arguable exception of the Holocaust/Israel thread, every one of these except for your three polls, DOES deal with a current event.
Yours belong in General. |
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DorkothyParker
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Location: Jeju
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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I am ignorant as I do not know the definition of "common law" in this context. So I am going to answer the question simply regarding a general view of free speech. I apologize if I circle the drain.
I generally agree with Oliver Wendell Holmes, "the right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins" generally when it comes to personal freedoms. Don't scream "fire" in a crowded theater, don't "imply" that someone should harm or murder another individual.
However, with great power comes great responsibility. Thus, your words may incite other words which contradict your words. I don't see anything wrong with a TV station firing a personality who uses racist language or offends people because, as a private company, they have a right to do so. However, I have no issue with a person using their own private funds to spread their ignorant hate. Had I funds, I would spread all kinds of hippy dippy rhetorical love.
I do find that earlier quote humorous as I believe in all kinds of personal and political freedoms and I am a registered Socialist. :/ |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Quote: |
I am ignorant as I do not know the definition of "common law" in this context. So I am going to answer the question simply regarding a general view of free speech. I apologize if I circle the drain.
I generally agree with Oliver Wendell Holmes, "the right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins" generally when it comes to personal freedoms. Don't scream "fire" in a crowded theater, don't "imply" that someone should harm or murder another individual.
However, with great power comes great responsibility. Thus, your words may incite other words which contradict your words. I don't see anything wrong with a TV station firing a personality who uses racist language or offends people because, as a private company, they have a right to do so. However, I have no issue with a person using their own private funds to spread their ignorant hate. Had I funds, I would spread all kinds of hippy dippy rhetorical love.
I do find that earlier quote humorous as I believe in all kinds of personal and political freedoms and I am a registered Socialist. :/ |
Interesting points....though I don't agree with some, yet it can't be discarded.
dmbfan |
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DorkothyParker
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Location: Jeju
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, and in reference to the "teabagging" thread (lol) I totally think free speech can and should be used to support the violent overthrow of the government. When the government stops working for the people, it's time to take a good hard look at things. If a revolution is required, so be it. I'm told this is a major foundation of our country.  |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Oh, and in reference to the "teabagging" thread (lol) I totally think free speech can and should be used to support the violent overthrow of the government. When the government stops working for the people, it's time to take a good hard look at things. If a revolution is required, so be it. I'm told this is a major foundation of our country. |
Now, I agree with this. Although, I don't think it should start violent. That should be a last resort. But, once the goverment has continuously stopped working for the people, it is time for revolution. I love my country but it is time the American people take it back.
Perhaps "the south " WILL rise, again?
dmbfan |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| How is this a current event? |
It's relevent to Georgia's Resolution 632.
It's relevent to the recent U.N. Resolution up for vote that attempts to assert Freedom of Speech shouldn't include insulting Islam.
I think that despite it's abstract nature it's very relevent to current events in general.
Freedom of Speech (for individual citizens) should have no limits beyond those that serve to directly protect individuals (not companies or governmental organizations) from defamation through falsehood.
Honestly I'm even fairly wary of laws against things like people screaming, "Fire!" in a crowded room; if someone is trampled or harmed in such a situation, it's the fault of the idiot who trampled or harmed them. What if there really had been a fire? The people would have behaved the same way, and whoever got hurt still would have been hurt. Individuals who harm others out of panic need to be held accountable, regardless of why they panicked. Swearing in public is another example of something that should be legal (my brother got a ticket for this once).
Mind you, just because something is legal doesn't mean people should do it. It just means it shouldn't be illegal. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
Honestly I'm even fairly wary of laws against things like people screaming, "Fire!" in a crowded room; if someone is trampled or harmed in such a situation, it's the fault of the idiot who trampled or harmed them. What if there really had been a fire? The people would have behaved the same way, and whoever got hurt still would have been hurt. Individuals who harm others out of panic need to be held accountable, regardless of why they panicked. |
I disagree.
I think people should be held accountable for both their actions and their words. You hint at that in your post about 'defamation', but as we know living in Korea, defamation is not a universal standard. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| How is this a current event? |
It's relevent to Georgia's Resolution 632.
It's relevent to the recent U.N. Resolution up for vote that attempts to assert Freedom of Speech shouldn't include insulting Islam.
I think that despite it's abstract nature it's very relevent to current events in general.
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It may well be. I just think the OP has a responsibility to make it relevant to some specific current event. |
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oldtactics
Joined: 18 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall, based on an idea by Voltaire. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
Honestly I'm even fairly wary of laws against things like people screaming, "Fire!" in a crowded room; if someone is trampled or harmed in such a situation, it's the fault of the idiot who trampled or harmed them. What if there really had been a fire? The people would have behaved the same way, and whoever got hurt still would have been hurt. Individuals who harm others out of panic need to be held accountable, regardless of why they panicked. |
I disagree.
I think people should be held accountable for both their actions and their words. You hint at that in your post about 'defamation', but as we know living in Korea, defamation is not a universal standard. |
I think people should be held accountable for their words as well. In cases where the words themselves are what damages other individuals (such as in cases of defamation), that accountability should be legal; you directly harmed someone, even if it was with words.
However, in cases where it's not the words but rather the stupid, panicky behavior of others that damages other people, that accountability should be social rather than legal in my estimation. Shouting, "Fire!" might not be nice, but it's stupid, dangerous behavior from others that did harm, not your words. Swearing in public might be rude, but it harms no one. Hate speech might be vile and distasteful, but illegalizing it would be even more distasteful, and so on.
Few things are as important as the free expression of ideas. Only where it directly and proveably damages other humans should it be curtailed.
| bacasper wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| How is this a current event? |
It's relevent to Georgia's Resolution 632.
It's relevent to the recent U.N. Resolution up for vote that attempts to assert Freedom of Speech shouldn't include insulting Islam.
I think that despite it's abstract nature it's very relevent to current events in general.
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It may well be. I just think the OP has a responsibility to make it relevant to some specific current event. |
He probably could have done a better job of that, yes. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| America does Free Speech exactly right. We should be proud of that, if nothing else. |
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harlowethrombey
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| America does Free Speech exactly right. We should be proud of that, if nothing else. |
It's how we defeated Slavery and invented democracy and stopped racism. |
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