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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:41 am Post subject: Jackie Chan endorses China's authoritarianism |
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Jackie Chan makes controversial comments
| Jackie Chan wrote: |
| I'm not sure if it's good to have freedom or not. I'm gradually beginning to feel that we Chinese need to be controlled. If we're not being controlled, we'll just do what we want. |
I've never thought highly of Jackie Chan. Now I absolutely hate him. I'd boycott his movies, but that would imply that I've ever paid to see one. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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It sounds like the guy's basically just regurgitating pop orientalism, the kind of stuff you can hear around the family dinner table. ("Well you know, those people over there, it's a different society, they need a strong hand.")
I wouldn't attach too much importance to it. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Why do people give any weight at all to anything any celebrity has to say about any subject whatsoever outside of acting and filmmaking?
What exactly is J. Chan's background and expertise in Chinese cultural history and politics? |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Chinese nationalists pretty much agree with this sentiment. |
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semi-fly
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Since when have the Chinese not been controlled? The Chinese have a loosened up certain restrictions, but they still lack what he calls "freedom." What if anything does he think is running a muck in China is it the drug trade, poverty, government, etc. ? |
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samcheokguy
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Location: Samcheok G-do
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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-I don't know, but I think ruling a billion people, 70% of which are poor farmers, is a little different than governing France.
-Mankind has been ruled by authoratative govts, for most of history. I'm not saying its right, but I am saying it works...sort of. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: Jackie Chan endorses China's authoritarianism |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Jackie Chan makes controversial comments
| Jackie Chan wrote: |
| I'm not sure if it's good to have freedom or not. I'm gradually beginning to feel that we Chinese need to be controlled. If we're not being controlled, we'll just do what we want. |
I've never thought highly of Jackie Chan. Now I absolutely hate him. I'd boycott his movies, but that would imply that I've ever paid to see one. |
Why be so mad? It's his country, and he has a right to his opinion. When I lived in China I heard this exact opinion voiced regularly by friends and colleagues. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Jackie Chan endorses China's authoritarianism |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Jackie Chan makes controversial comments
| Jackie Chan wrote: |
| I'm not sure if it's good to have freedom or not. I'm gradually beginning to feel that we Chinese need to be controlled. If we're not being controlled, we'll just do what we want. |
I've never thought highly of Jackie Chan. Now I absolutely hate him. I'd boycott his movies, but that would imply that I've ever paid to see one. |
Why be so mad? It's his country, and he has a right to his opinion. When I lived in China I heard this exact opinion voiced regularly by friends and colleagues. |
I find it ironic that you defend his right to his opinion to express his opinion that there ought be limits on what opinions he might be able to express.
Just shows that the phrase, 'he has a right to his opinion' has become a kind of truistic platitude. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Catman wrote: |
| Chinese nationalists pretty much agree with this sentiment. |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| When I lived in China I heard this exact opinion voiced regularly by friends and colleagues. |
Read A. Gramsci on hegemony. You will recognize hegemonic thinking on this or that because it appears in the form of unchallenged "common sense."
Does not necessarily make it correct... |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Also, nobody likes criticizing their country to foreigners. You can't always take it face value. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Strange to see a right-wing Americanist cite a communist thinker against China. I don't think a people couldn't exist without their own particular common sense. The same goes for us liberal westerners posting in this thread. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Why do people give any weight at all to anything any celebrity has to say about any subject whatsoever outside of acting and filmmaking? |
Good question. They even elect them president sometimes. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Jackie Chan endorses China's authoritarianism |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Jackie Chan makes controversial comments
| Jackie Chan wrote: |
| I'm not sure if it's good to have freedom or not. I'm gradually beginning to feel that we Chinese need to be controlled. If we're not being controlled, we'll just do what we want. |
I've never thought highly of Jackie Chan. Now I absolutely hate him. I'd boycott his movies, but that would imply that I've ever paid to see one. |
Why be so mad? It's his country, and he has a right to his opinion. When I lived in China I heard this exact opinion voiced regularly by friends and colleagues. |
I find it ironic that you defend his right to his opinion to express his opinion that there ought be limits on what opinions he might be able to express.
Just shows that the phrase, 'he has a right to his opinion' has become a kind of truistic platitude. |
OK then. Jackie Chan has no right to express this opinion. Feel better now?
I still don't see why his remarks make you "absolutely hate" him. And to be consistent, you'll have to absolutely hate tens of millions of Chinese along with him. In my experience Chinese really admire strong rulers who can rule a large empire with an iron fist. This is why Hitler is so admired there.
Anyway, he is right to some degree. Every society needs its controls. Or people like you and Gopher would just run amok all over the show! |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Catman wrote: |
| Chinese nationalists pretty much agree with this sentiment. |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| When I lived in China I heard this exact opinion voiced regularly by friends and colleagues. |
Read A. Gramsci on hegemony. You will recognize hegemonic thinking on this or that because it appears in the form of unchallenged "common sense."
Does not necessarily make it correct... |
I don't see how one can discuss these matters in terms of correct or incorrect. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Jackie Chan endorses China's authoritarianism |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
OK then. Jackie Chan has no right to express this opinion. Feel better now? |
No. You've completely missed the point. OF COURSE he has the right to express his opinion. To even say someone has the right to express their opinion is inane and insulting, because for most people in a liberal society its a fundamental assumption. The presumption is that I'm some kind of fascist, why else would you remind me he has a right to his opinion? Because I can't presume you're inane as all hell. Please refer back to my 'truist platitude' remark.
| Quote: |
| I still don't see why his remarks make you "absolutely hate" him. And to be consistent, you'll have to absolutely hate tens of millions of Chinese along with him. |
No I don't. Tens of millions of Chinese people don't make crap movies, don't over-hype themselves, don't get drunk and behave badly, and most of all don't have an int'l public platform from which to air their naive and poorly thought out bullshit. I didn't like Chan before and I absolutely hate him now. |
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