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Free speech poll.
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There should be no limits on free speech beyond that of common law.
A. Yes
56%
 56%  [ 9 ]
B. No
31%
 31%  [ 5 ]
C. Well, lets have a look at this more closely.
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
D. Freedom with responsiblity.
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 16

Author Message
bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Captain Corea wrote:
bacasper wrote:
Fox wrote:
My opinion is that this falls under the province of other laws. For example:

-If you say, "I think you should kill John, because he's gay, and we all hate gays. His home is at <address>, and he'll be there at <time>," I'd say you're guilty of conspiracy to murder.

-If you say, "I think Sara needs to die, and I'll pay to have her killed," again, I'd say you're guilty of conspiracy to murder.

In both cases, it's not merely the expression of ideas, it is essentially plotting to kill someone. If, by comparison, a man is speaking at an anti-semitic rally and expresses hate for the Jews with exceptional articulation, and his words impassion someone, following which they go and kill a Jew, I don't think the speaker should be prosecuted.

There are going to be cases that aren't as clear cut, but I feel it's better to error on the side of too little regulation of freedom of speech than too much.

There is a vast gulf between telling and paying someone to kill. One is mere words, the other an act. Mere words should be free; acts, prosecutable. Why should I be held accountable if I tell you to kill someone, and you then do it, assuming I didn't hold a gun to your head or otherwise threaten you. You could have said no or not done it.


What about a person who uses something other than money to coerce?

What about someone who tells state secrets to the enemy - enabling them to kill millions?

What about someone who gives away your PIN number to overseas gangsters?

There are lots of limits on the Freedom of Speech.

In short: talk, OK; act, not.

I mean, where does it stop? Shall we hold their English teachers liable for having taught them how to say it?
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think you're missing it - what about when the talking IS the action?
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Captain Corea wrote:
I think you're missing it - what about when the talking IS the action?

Freedom of speech is absolute. It is the stealing of the money, or killing of the millions which are crimes, not mere talking about it.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
bacasper wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
I think you're missing it - what about when the talking IS the action?

Freedom of speech is absolute. It is the stealing of the money, or killing of the millions which are crimes, not mere talking about it.


So you have no problem with people telling your PIN number to others? With people giving away National/Military secrets?

With someone instructing minors how to create explosives? Teaching kids how to produce harmful drugs?

Sorry mate, but freedom of speech is not absolute to m - not even close.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Captain Corea wrote:
bacasper wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
I think you're missing it - what about when the talking IS the action?

Freedom of speech is absolute. It is the stealing of the money, or killing of the millions which are crimes, not mere talking about it.


So you have no problem with people telling your PIN number to others? With people giving away National/Military secrets?

With someone instructing minors how to create explosives? Teaching kids how to produce harmful drugs?

Sorry mate, but freedom of speech is not absolute to m - not even close.

The PIN should be difficult to find out, but not a crime to know or tell. Use it to steal my money however, and yes, we do have a problem.

By your logic, the internet should be illegal since there we can find how to steal PINs, make explosives, and kill people. It's too slippery of a slope.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
bacasper wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
bacasper wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
I think you're missing it - what about when the talking IS the action?

Freedom of speech is absolute. It is the stealing of the money, or killing of the millions which are crimes, not mere talking about it.


So you have no problem with people telling your PIN number to others? With people giving away National/Military secrets?

With someone instructing minors how to create explosives? Teaching kids how to produce harmful drugs?

Sorry mate, but freedom of speech is not absolute to m - not even close.

The PIN should be difficult to find out, but not a crime to know or tell. Use it to steal my money however, and yes, we do have a problem.

By your logic, the internet should be illegal since there we can find how to steal PINs, make explosives, and kill people. It's too slippery of a slope.


That's a strawman, I never said that the internet should be illigal, nor did I imply it. I simply said that there should be limitations to Freedom of Speech.

On the internet for example, perhaps having an age requirement for certain sites. If there is no age requirement, then certain topics may not be allowed.

I noticed how you didn't comment of the giving away of State secrets.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Captain Corea wrote:
bacasper wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
bacasper wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
I think you're missing it - what about when the talking IS the action?

Freedom of speech is absolute. It is the stealing of the money, or killing of the millions which are crimes, not mere talking about it.


So you have no problem with people telling your PIN number to others? With people giving away National/Military secrets?

With someone instructing minors how to create explosives? Teaching kids how to produce harmful drugs?

Sorry mate, but freedom of speech is not absolute to m - not even close.

The PIN should be difficult to find out, but not a crime to know or tell. Use it to steal my money however, and yes, we do have a problem.

By your logic, the internet should be illegal since there we can find how to steal PINs, make explosives, and kill people. It's too slippery of a slope.


That's a strawman, I never said that the internet should be illigal, nor did I imply it. I simply said that there should be limitations to Freedom of Speech.

On the internet for example, perhaps having an age requirement for certain sites. If there is no age requirement, then certain topics may not be allowed.

I noticed how you didn't comment of the giving away of State secrets.

I'm not a big fan of States and militaries.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Captain Corea wrote:
bacasper wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
I think you're missing it - what about when the talking IS the action?

Freedom of speech is absolute. It is the stealing of the money, or killing of the millions which are crimes, not mere talking about it.


So you have no problem with people telling your PIN number to others? With people giving away National/Military secrets?

With someone instructing minors how to create explosives? Teaching kids how to produce harmful drugs?

Sorry mate, but freedom of speech is not absolute to m - not even close.


He's right, ba, if the speech itself is the substantive evil, i.e. fraud or violation of a duty, it is not protected.

I'd think that'd be common sense.
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