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kiknkorea
Joined: 16 May 2008
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 Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
I don't have a problem with the 2nd Amendment being read broadly;
but a million men on the Washington Mall with guns is not a right given in the Constitution.
*beep* no. |
The 2nd Amendment gives the right to keep and bear arms while the 1st Amendment gives the right to assemble.
Americans shouldn't take either one for granted. I'm not advocating this particular event, but those who do have the right to do it under the Constitution. Now I'm sure there are plenty of local laws and ordinances concerning them, but the Constitution is clear enough on this matter. |
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BS.Dos.
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| This is outrageous. This'll never happen, surely? I can't believe the feds would sit back and allow this to gain momentum. A million marching on Washington, armed? I'm pretty sure the organizers are being bound and gagged as we speak. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
Maybe they just want to remind them of these lines from our Declaration of Independence:
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Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
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I'll see your Jefferson and raise you one Washington (Farewell Address 1796):
The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize...
With such powerful and obvious motives to union, affecting all parts of our country, while experience shall not have demonstrated its impracticability, there will always be reason to distrust the patriotism of those who in any quarter may endeavor to weaken its bands...
This government, the offspring of our own choice, uninfluenced and unawed, adopted upon full investigation and mature deliberation, completely free in its principles, in the distribution of its powers, uniting security with energy, and containing within itself a provision for its own amendment, has a just claim to your confidence and your support. Respect for its authority, compliance with its laws, acquiescence in its measures, are duties enjoined by the fundamental maxims of true liberty. The basis of our political systems is the right of the people to make and to alter their constitutions of government. But the Constitution which at any time exists, till changed by an explicit and authentic act of the whole people, is sacredly obligatory upon all. The very idea of the power and the right of the people to establish government presupposes the duty of every individual to obey the established government. " |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta, ignore them. Nothing will come of it. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| kiknkorea wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
I don't have a problem with the 2nd Amendment being read broadly;
but a million men on the Washington Mall with guns is not a right given in the Constitution.
*beep* no. |
The 2nd Amendment gives the right to keep and bear arms while the 1st Amendment gives the right to assemble.
Americans shouldn't take either one for granted. I'm not advocating this particular event, but those who do have the right to do it under the Constitution. Now I'm sure there are plenty of local laws and ordinances concerning them, but the Constitution is clear enough on this matter. |
The Constitution is not clear enough on this matter. The Constitution says nothing about 1 million people on the Washington Mall with guns.
I've looked. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
Maybe they just want to remind them of these lines from our Declaration of Independence:
| Quote: |
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
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I'll see your Jefferson and raise you one Washington (Farewell Address 1796):
The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize...
With such powerful and obvious motives to union, affecting all parts of our country, while experience shall not have demonstrated its impracticability, there will always be reason to distrust the patriotism of those who in any quarter may endeavor to weaken its bands...
This government, the offspring of our own choice, uninfluenced and unawed, adopted upon full investigation and mature deliberation, completely free in its principles, in the distribution of its powers, uniting security with energy, and containing within itself a provision for its own amendment, has a just claim to your confidence and your support. Respect for its authority, compliance with its laws, acquiescence in its measures, are duties enjoined by the fundamental maxims of true liberty. The basis of our political systems is the right of the people to make and to alter their constitutions of government. But the Constitution which at any time exists, till changed by an explicit and authentic act of the whole people, is sacredly obligatory upon all. The very idea of the power and the right of the people to establish government presupposes the duty of every individual to obey the established government. " |
Good to see you also support the First and Second Amendments. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Ya-ta, ignore them. Nothing will come of it. |
Now you are the one being overly optimistic. 
At this point I'm just boggled at the grandiose vision of summoning a million armed men to the Washington Mall. I've read a bit about militias and am impressed with their ability to delude themselves. There is the potential for this story to turn into something and is one I want to keep an eye on over the next couple of months to see what, if anything, develops.
Question of the Day: Would the Million Militia Man March be considered a failure if only 10,000 armed men showed up in front of the White House? |
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loggerhead007
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Our government will shoot them. Remember Kent State? In most countries the government fears the people. Not in the states. People let their rights be trampled on in silence. I'm ashamed. 
Last edited by loggerhead007 on Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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agentX
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Jeolla province
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Originally I was going to post a more detailed response to this call for an armed march on DC, but there has been an update. From the Washington Independent:
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| Update: The Ohio Militia has apparently taken the video down from its YouTube page. However, DoubleDoseUS has a videotaped version of the original video up |
So either they got called out for it or their video had some kinda copyright violation.  I wonder who could've called that in...
Nonetheless, it would be a great idea for a march. Problem is that they waited 6 months too late. Where were they when the Bush admin botched Iraq, authorized torture, wiretapped phone lines, fouled up the Katrina recovery, and politicized the Justice dept? Oh, they wanna march now?
Lets look at the factors.
black president.
mass shootings almost weekly
DHS report on right-wing extremists
Glenn Beck and FOX news stoking fear in right-wingers
gun sales up sharply and ammo shortages across the board
tea parties sponsored by Dick Armey and so forth
Yah ok, this ain't about race  it's about the rights of gun owners |
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kiknkorea
Joined: 16 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
The Constitution is not clear enough on this matter. The Constitution says nothing about 1 million people on the Washington Mall with guns.
I've looked. |
Well, no it doesn't. Just like it says nothing about speaking your mind on the internet. But the basic rights are still there. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| kiknkorea wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
The Constitution is not clear enough on this matter. The Constitution says nothing about 1 million people on the Washington Mall with guns.
I've looked. |
Well, no it doesn't. Just like it says nothing about speaking your mind on the internet. But the basic rights are still there. |
Nor does it say anything about walking to the corner store to buy ice cream. I've looked.
So does that mean we can't? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| kiknkorea wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
The Constitution is not clear enough on this matter. The Constitution says nothing about 1 million people on the Washington Mall with guns.
I've looked. |
Well, no it doesn't. Just like it says nothing about speaking your mind on the internet. But the basic rights are still there. |
Nor does it say anything about walking to the corner store to buy ice cream. I've looked.
So does that mean we can't? |
Yes, perfect. You guys understand me and the Constitution just perfectly. You might as well inform these nine that you two will be taking over from here on out. |
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