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Savant Student - Public School teachers please advise.
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Countrygirl



Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Location: in the classroom

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:52 pm    Post subject: Savant Student - Public School teachers please advise. Reply with quote

I have one student who is compelled to draw pictures of subways, subway systems and now he is starting to draw boats. His attention to detail is amazing and it doesn't take a genius to realize that he is a genius. I just saw National Geographic "My Brilliant Brain" which makes me think that he is a savant. I've done a little searching on the interent and everything seems to fit. (google savant drawings on youtube and that's the level of detail that my student is drawing. It's truly amazing.)

I don't know much about this condition so I really don't know what I can do with this knowledge. My co-teacher is also worried about what will happen once he hits middle and high school. His homeroom teacher doesn't seem to care about him and I wonder if his parents even know what his condition is or how to deal with him. He does exhibit some mild autism which Korean teachers don't really seem trained to recognize.

Public School teachers with Education Degrees, how would this sort of situation be dealt with in the public school system back home? My co-teacher will tell the homeroom teacher that I think that he is a savant and autistic but I don't know if the homeroom teacher care or will even bother to tell the parents. I don't really know what I should be doing in this situation or if I should do if anything. Please advise.
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Fishead soup



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Making a living in Korea as an artist is really cut throat. Gallery's actually charge you money to use their space and don't care whether you are able to sell or not. I know from experience. Gallery's in Insadong charge approxiamately 2 million won for a two week Exhibition. You are lucky to break even forget on making a profit. Most independant artists go into Education either at the public school level or University. That might require him to have a well rounded education. Something difficult for a genuine Savant.

His best bet is to become a commercial Illustrator or designer.
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Scotticus



Joined: 18 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fishead soup wrote:

His best bet is to become a commercial Illustrator or designer.


No, his best bet is to get the *beep* out of Korea. Keeping a kid like that in the Korean education system is not going to end well. The extra help he's going to need and the extra "trouble" he's going to cause in the classroom is going to be interpreted as him "misbehaving." He's going to be labelled as a problem child and, worst case scenario, not get a diploma. At best he'll squeek through and graduate.

Admittedly, the West is almost as bad when it comes to handling "exceptional" students (the worst and best students), but he at least would have a chance. The K-Education system's reliance on "community" and unquestioning conformity is going to cause him no end of trouble.
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Fishead soup



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scotticus wrote:
Fishead soup wrote:

His best bet is to become a commercial Illustrator or designer.


No, his best bet is to get the *beep* out of Korea. Keeping a kid like that in the Korean education system is not going to end well. The extra help he's going to need and the extra "trouble" he's going to cause in the classroom is going to be interpreted as him "misbehaving." He's going to be labelled as a problem child and, worst case scenario, not get a diploma. At best he'll squeek through and graduate.

Admittedly, the West is almost as bad when it comes to handling "exceptional" students (the worst and best students), but he at least would have a chance. The K-Education system's reliance on "community" and unquestioning conformity is going to cause him no end of trouble.


Agreed maybe I was thinking too far down the road.
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Xuanzang



Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Sadang

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too bad those jobs he would be great at are scoffed at by Korean society. Comic book illustrator, graphic art designer, etc.
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The Gipkik



Joined: 30 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you have an autistic student. Autism has gained a lot of recognition in the past few years, so he would probably get placed in a gifted students class, a special education class/school, or just be kept in the regular public school class in order to assimilate with regular, functional students. The latter designation needn't deprive the autistic boy from having his gifts recognized and nurtured, but some teachers, schools are more sensitive and better informed than others. Check this out and see if it makes sense to you:
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=6755100
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gazz



Joined: 13 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a huge market for train related stuff, well in the UK anyway.

ESP if you get him to draw 'old style' trains.

It could be a nice little earner for him + his family. I'm sure they would become a lot more supportive then! Cool

Good luck with him!

I've taught a couple of similar boys, I was in the fortunate position of them being assigned 1 to 1 teaching assistants though!

I think I still have some material on Autistic ect children hidden away on my lap top.

If you want me to try and dig it out PM me.
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Mr. Pink



Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Gipkik wrote:
Sounds like you have an autistic student. Autism has gained a lot of recognition in the past few years, so he would probably get placed in a gifted students class, a special education class/school, or just be kept in the regular public school class in order to assimilate with regular, functional students. The latter designation needn't deprive the autistic boy from having his gifts recognized and nurtured, but some teachers, schools are more sensitive and better informed than others. Check this out and see if it makes sense to you:
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=6755100


This is what I was thinking.

If he were to go to school in Ontario, Canada he would be identified as having an exceptionality and an Individualized Education Plan would be created for him. This would either include integration with a regular classroom (99% of the time this is what happens) or he would be in a class with other identified students.

The kid might have an EA and would certainly have access to the special needs room and special needs teacher(s).

The Korean education system is not designed well to handle students with exceptionalities, nor the various types of learners. They pigeon hole all learners as being auditory learners who can learn best by teacher directed instruction. This just isn't the reality of how humans learn.

Good luck to you in dealing with the student, their parent and their teachers. I doubt I could work around the student's homeroom teacher. I would be at war with them everyday until they woke up and realized, ALL students should be worthy of a teacher's attention. Ignoring a student with exceptionalities is just wrong on so many levels.
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Kikomom



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: them thar hills--Penna, USA--Zippy is my kid, the teacher in ROK. You can call me Kiko

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds like you have made an important discovery in the world of teaching. Something that many FT's never considered when embarking on adventures in the classroom. The Gifted Ones.

Is he picking up any English?

(PM sent)
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frankly speaking



Joined: 23 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all you are not a clinical psychologist and neither are any of us Certified teachers. We may be able to suspect something; however, I wouldn't go putting any kind of label on a kid without testing. Just witnessing isn't testing. Though you may be correct in your assumption, you could be fired for making accusations about a student's mental health.

In Korea it is even more difficult to even ask that a student gets tested. My advice is to give as much support as you can and encourage the student to continue with his/her gifts as you would any student. If the student needs special help to comprehend certain lessons, then you might ask the principal or director what options the school has to help a student with special needs.

I worked with a kid that only drew city scenes. He would either draw them with a sun or dark. He would say cloudy day or sunny day to describe them. That was the extent of his oral communication. He was a 7 year old American. He was autistic and I know because he was tested. I didn't just assume that he was.

Good luck with teaching him/her. But be careful of what you say about him/her to your colleagues.
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Rory_Calhoun27



Joined: 14 Feb 2009

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Props to the last poster! You'd really need a HEAP of psychological testing to prove anything along those those lines stateside, so taking a leap based on firsthand impressions is ultimately unhelpful to the child. being labelled a savant can be as much of a curse as any other label. And if my time spent on Nick At Times bares witness, Howard Hessman's "Head Of the Class" bares this out, as was Arvid's curse to bare for all nerds everywhere... Sad

The only thing an English teacher from another country can do is offer their observations to other teachers in the school. if they get the ball rolling, great. It is another society's prodigy to discover.... or shun, as the case may be.
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The Gipkik



Joined: 30 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankly speaking wrote:


He was autistic and I know because he was tested. I didn't just assume that he was. Good luck with teaching him/her. But be careful of what you say about him/her to your colleagues.


This is a far too politically correct evaluation. Each teacher has the right to make an estimation of each and every one of his or her students. You are right in that you shouldn't just blab about it to your colleagues, but even this is begging the question. Don't you also have to make an assessment or judgment about your colleagues? We judge each other all the time. I've got a couple of students who I SUSPECT are autistic. I'm not a clinical psychologist, but I am not going to cower in the face of this blistering truth to not have an opinion. This is what teachers do. If a teacher doesn't have enough information then it is incumbent on him or her to do his research. Discuss the student with professionals, have the student tested; but lacking the facilities or interest in having this student tested, I'm not going to ignore the student and just treat him/her like the rest. I am going to adjust my teaching style. I am going to adjust my teaching style because I suspect the student has autism or Tourette's syndrome or ADD or is dyslexic. Yes, mental illness is very much stigmatized in Korea, but any good teacher is going to not only notice, but make adjustments. The best way to do this is to be informed, to do his or her homework. But, yes, take care in who you talk to because some Koreans may very well believe that mental illness does not exist.
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Scotticus



Joined: 18 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Gipkik wrote:

This is a far too politically correct evaluation.


Do you know what "politically correct" even means?

Quote:

Yes, mental illness is very much stigmatized in Korea, but any good teacher is going to not only notice, but make adjustments. The best way to do this is to be informed, to do his or her homework. But, yes, take care in who you talk to because some Koreans may very well believe that mental illness does not exist.


Autism is not a mental illness. If you're going to use "politically correct" terms, at least use the correct ones.

I'm not even going to bother commenting on the rest of the post. "Begging the question?" Rolling Eyes
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Rory_Calhoun27



Joined: 14 Feb 2009

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scotticus wrote:
The Gipkik wrote:

This is a far too politically correct evaluation.


Do you know what "politically correct" even means?

Quote:

Yes, mental illness is very much stigmatized in Korea, but any good teacher is going to not only notice, but make adjustments. The best way to do this is to be informed, to do his or her homework. But, yes, take care in who you talk to because some Koreans may very well believe that mental illness does not exist.


Autism is not a mental illness. If you're going to use "politically correct" terms, at least use the correct ones.

I'm not even going to bother commenting on the rest of the post. "Begging the question?" Rolling Eyes


Tell it to the shrinks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism#Diagnosis

It's not the role of a teacher to be a social worker or any other do-gooder for people here. When kids are picked on for perceived deficits, I try to let my coteacher know about a problem I see, and crack down on specfic events in the class. RE: some special gift, about all you can do is let someone know about it, and let the machine take it from there.

Given that teachers are here usually for a year, and even if they stick around, have no real pull with the education system, that's about as realistic as you can be.
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The Gipkik



Joined: 30 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scotticus wrote:
The Gipkik wrote:

This is a far too politically correct evaluation.


Do you know what "politically correct" even means?

Yes, Scotticus, I'm afraid I do. Have you any idea what I am referring to and in what context?


Quote:

Yes, mental illness is very much stigmatized in Korea, but any good teacher is going to not only notice, but make adjustments. The best way to do this is to be informed, to do his or her homework. But, yes, take care in who you talk to because some Koreans may very well believe that mental illness does not exist.


Autism is not a mental illness. If you're going to use "politically correct" terms, at least use the correct ones.

According to what definition? In what country? Over what period of time? Why do you assume that I was referring autism in itself as PC? Speaking of developmental difficulties...

I'm not even going to bother commenting on the rest of the post. "Begging the question?" Rolling Eyes

First, begging the question has nothing to do with merely raising a question. You knew that right? It is a logical fallacy. In this case, a poster implied that telling other colleagues that you have a "savant" student was wrong, just because it was. The statement in itself offered no evidence to support this claim. The initial assumption was treated as obviously correct, so it begged the question: Don't we also make assessments or judgments of our colleagues just as we do with our students? And isn't this inevitable? From a psychological perspective, this was just a great, glaring hole.

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