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For the first time in 5 years...
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:39 am    Post subject: For the first time in 5 years... Reply with quote

...a plurality of the public feels the country is on the right track.--from 17% just before the election to 48% now. This is by far Obama's greatest achievement. The right, the wingnuts and their friends the libertarians are all gnashing their teeth at this statistic. Yeah, yeah, more people lost their jobs again this month (thank you crappy economic policies of the past) and that's bad, but what is good is that people feel things will get better. There will be no grass roots revolution, no matter how many tea bags are tossed over the White House fence as long as this attitude prevails.

This is probably what frosts the right-whingers cookies the most: Obama has saved the country. And everyone knows it. No radical solutions will be sought. You can display your poutrage on the right, but our country has taken the most important step back to recovery and you are becoming more irrelevant by the minute.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: For the first time in 5 years... Reply with quote

What the public feels about the direction of the country isn't necessarily an accurate indication of the actual direction of the country.

Quote:
The right, the wingnuts and their friends the libertarians are all gnashing their teeth at this statistic.


I really don't think the libertarians deserve to be grouped with nutty Republicans and "wingnuts". The libertarians are a very reasonable group. The war on drugs is an extremist policy. The bailouts are an extremist policy. The war in Iraq, torture, domestic spying are extremist policies. The pushing of socially constructed groups (ethnic, religious etc) into solitude by the Democrats as an electoral policy is an extremist policy. The libertarians oppose all of this. Mainstream Democrats and Republicans have extremely ridiculous views. That they are mainstream doesn't make them reasonable.
Quote:

Yeah, yeah, more people lost their jobs again this month (thank you crappy economic policies of the past)


What break with the economic policies of the past has Obama pushed and passed?

Quote:
There will be no grass roots revolution, no matter how many tea bags are tossed over the White House fence as long as this attitude prevails.

The mainstream has failed the American people. On every level, less the top 1%, economic life has been worsening. A grassroots movement away from this would benefit you, ya-ta.
Quote:

This is probably what frosts the right-whingers cookies the most: Obama has saved the country.


Oh come on.

Quote:
No radical solutions will be sought.


What? Saving the financial services industry from itself is radical. It is extremist. It is bad for the country (less the FSI). A reasonable solution, which I suppose you would think radical, would be the opposite of what Obama has followed.
Quote:

You can display your poutrage on the right, but our country has taken the most important step back to recovery and you are becoming more irrelevant by the minute.


Ya-ta, in just under 4 years, if Obama hasn't done a 180 on economic policy, the country will be in worse shape than now and the wingnuts will have just taken power.


I need the United States to right itself. I don't really find satisfaction in being so critical and focused on a country that is not my own. But as goes America, so goes Canada. And right now, the United States - under Obama - is dragging us to the abyss.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: For the first time in 5 years... Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

This is probably what frosts the right-whingers cookies the most: Obama has saved the country. And everyone knows it.


Placing Obama's main indicator of success in the polls is probably not wise in the long-term.

Americans are a fickle, fickle people.
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Pluto



Joined: 19 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the soju. Though I will say this. Libertarians are about as relevant to the GOP as Log Cabin Republicans.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry guys, but I think when someone does something great, he/she should be acknowleged for it, especially when it is something so important. The last 7-8 months have been a pretty crazy time and it's remarkable that nearly half the public has been reassured about the future even as things get worse and the other camp of political leaders has been acting like escapees from the booby hatch. Cool head, warm heart and a steady hand. That's usually a winning combination at any time, but especially these days.

Note that I didn't mention in the OP Obama's personal popularity or the difference between that number and the approval rating for his policies; I don't think those are particularly important and can change in a second. I kept the focus on people's feeling about the direction of the country on purpose. When I read the reports yesterday I was reminded of Whoopi Goldberg's comment about watching Star Trek when she was in high school. She said seeing Uhuru made her feel like black people had a future. That's insightful.

I disagree with mises' comment that 'what the public feels about the direction of the country isn't necessarily an accurate indication of the actual direction of the country'. Of course technically that's true. I'm sure the captain of the Titanic was confident right up to the moment of hitting the ice berg...and for some time after since the ship was 'unsinkable'. But you are presuming that the course is wrong. That's not what I'm talking about here. I'll risk getting all kumbaya about it and say that confidence is the bedrock of everything and that statistic is reflecting the undeniable fact that he is inspiring confidence. The abstract quality of leadership can't really be measured in statistics, but it can't be ignored or be dismissed. Obama's got it, in spades. ( Very Happy )
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ManintheMiddle



Joined: 20 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YaTa Boy boasted:

Quote:
plurality of the public feels the country is on the right track.--from 17% just before the election to 48% now. This is by far Obama's greatest achievement.


Who cares? It would be more of a news story if these numbers held up for several years. Most Presidents get a honeymoon period (except when the Gore loser legion went after Bush) of at least three months and Obama is just now coming out of his.

Besides, his unfavorables among Republicans is going up rapidly, although he does still command most of the independents, myself no longer included.

Bush managed a huge plurality in the months after 9-11, too, let's not forget.

Obama has yet to be tried in a big way in terms of foreign policy.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Most Presidents get a honeymoon period (except when the Gore loser legion went after Bush) of at least three months and Obama is just now coming out of his.


If that was a honeymoon your friends at Faux News gave Obama, what is left for them to throw at him now? In spite of that, he has been able to achieve an historically remarkable turnaround.
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IMF crisis



Joined: 27 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OP is a joke, right? Shortly after the election of a new president, about the same percentage of people who voted for said president feel the country is headed in the right direction. Who could have seen that coming?
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: For the first time in 5 years... Reply with quote

mises wrote:
The libertarians are a very reasonable group.


On some matters, such as ethical legislation, victimless crimes, and so forth, yes they are. On many other matters, such as governmental regulations and social programs, no they aren't.
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mole



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Act III

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMF crisis wrote:
The OP is a joke, right? Shortly after the election of a new president, about the same percentage of people who voted for said president feel the country is headed in the right direction. Who could have seen that coming?

OP is a "special needs" poster. It's part of his therapy.
Stop making sense, you'll confuse him.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMF crisis wrote:
The OP is a joke, right? Shortly after the election of a new president, about the same percentage of people who voted for said president feel the country is headed in the right direction. Who could have seen that coming?


If your claim were true, wouldn't the numbers make a big switch right after the election, then remain more or less steady?

ABC News/Washington Post Poll. April 21-24, 2009. N=1,072 adults nationwide.

"Do you think things in this country are generally going in the right direction or do you feel things have gotten pretty seriously off on the wrong track?"

Right
Direction Wrong Direction Unsure
% % %
4/21-24/09
50 48 2

3/26-29/09
42 57 1

2/19-22/09
31 67 2

1/13-16/09
19 78 3

12/11-14/08
15 82 3

http://www.pollingreport.com/right.htm

My question for you: Is poutrage a sustainable political stance?
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard Wolffe has some insight on this topic:

"Of all the measures of the first 100 days�the legislation and the spending�few mean quite as much to Obama�s aides as the dramatic turnaround in the mood of the country. An Associated Press poll last week showed a plurality believed the country was on the right track for the first time since January 2004, soon after the capture of Saddam Hussein. The only other time President Bush saw such numbers was in the months after 9/11. President Clinton enjoyed something similar at the end of his second term, at a time of peace of bubble-inflated prosperity.

The newly happy mood should translate into economic confidence, but instead it barely translates into political confidence. The reason: The bulk of those right-track numbers come from elated Democrats. More than 70 percent of them say the country is headed in the right direction.

The gap with Republicans suggests there are indeed, as John Edwards used to say, two Americas: just 10 percent of GOP voters think the same. More troubling for the White House: Independent voters, at 17 percent, are closer to Republicans than Democrats on the same question.

The teabag parties are easy to ridicule and the attempt to caricature Obama as a socialist is unhinged. But they illustrate a fringy sentiment to popular Republican thinking that threatens to make it almost impossible for the White House to communicate with those voters.

�You�re seeing significant movement among independents,� insists Axelrod. �But I think the fact that we�ve gone from 18 percent right-track in November to a positive direction now, regardless of the composition, is important. I think there are tangible things that must be done to move the country forward, but the sense of progress and possibility and hope is also important in terms of moving forward and getting from where we are to where we need to be.�

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-04-26/selling-the-100-days/2/

Naturally your supporters are going to come on board sooner than the congenital nay-sayers. That step has been accomplished. The next step is working on the genuine Independents. The anti-government independents and the hysterical Right are beyond anyone's reach.

Those who said the Election of '08 was a realigning election are increasingly looking like they were correct.
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Underwaterbob



Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMF crisis wrote:
The OP is a joke, right? Shortly after the election of a new president, about the same percentage of people who voted for said president feel the country is headed in the right direction. Who could have seen that coming?


Except in Korea where they elect someone then immediately disapprove of everything they do.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: For the first time in 5 years... Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
mises wrote:
The libertarians are a very reasonable group.


On some matters, such as ethical legislation, victimless crimes, and so forth, yes they are. On many other matters, such as governmental regulations and social programs, no they aren't.


On social programs and gov'tal regulations, they tend to at least question the status quo. Like, has the War on Poverty's increase in social welfare programs succeeded? (no) Also, is the hidden cost of X gov't regulation worth the result of X gov't regulation? (depends).

Yes, libertarians are at least asking the questions. And given the impetus of gov't retrenchment, I find their perspective especially valuable.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
...I find their perspective especially valuable.


Would that be the 18th Century perspective? Wink

(I'm sorry. I just couldn't help myself after seeing RP's call for letters of marque and reprisal to deal with the Somali pirates.)
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