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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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 Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:06 am Post subject: Re: Regret |
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| KHerald wrote: |
You guys are definitely right in that it should not have been printed.
I am trying to make content for expats in Korea and this was something that slipped by me. I read dozens of articles and columns every day and I skimmed over that one at too fast a pace.
Christianna means well in her usual column when she writes about arts in Korea, mostly Daegu (which is seriously underrepresented in media).
I work hard to keep generalizations of all kinds out of Expat Living (unlike another English newspaper). There is so much good that expats in Korea do, and there is so much in Korea to see and experience -- and that is my focus.
In short, I am sorry and this will not happen again.
Matt
([email protected]) |
That's a start.
BTW, Matt, maybe the next time you talk to her you could ask her to go to court with an ex-pat who didn't get paid or was illegally fired by a hagwon. We need interpreters. Maybe she should see the "other side" of Korea that so many of us have seen up close and personal- the Labor and Court system. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:52 am Post subject: Re: Regret |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
| KHerald wrote: |
You guys are definitely right in that it should not have been printed.
I am trying to make content for expats in Korea and this was something that slipped by me. I read dozens of articles and columns every day and I skimmed over that one at too fast a pace.
Christianna means well in her usual column when she writes about arts in Korea, mostly Daegu (which is seriously underrepresented in media).
I work hard to keep generalizations of all kinds out of Expat Living (unlike another English newspaper). There is so much good that expats in Korea do, and there is so much in Korea to see and experience -- and that is my focus.
In short, I am sorry and this will not happen again.
Matt
([email protected]) |
That's a start.
BTW, Matt, maybe the next time you talk to her you could ask her to go to court with an ex-pat who didn't get paid or was illegally fired by a hagwon. We need interpreters. Maybe she should see the "other side" of Korea that so many of us have seen up close and personal- the Labor and Court system. |
I was thinking that, perhaps, Matt didn't see what she wrote which was outrageous. Many of us foreigners have had to go to the Labor Board to get our money and to deal with exploitation. I did so before, and I did so with the help of a Kyopo from New York. He was very much into helping a Westerner like himself. It didn't matter that he was of Korean descent, and he didn't brush off my complaint. He also interpreted for us guys.
Also, so many of us have worked at hagwons where the bosses cheated us on holidays. It's not unusual. I mean when stuff like that, people have grounds to complain. How does that make foreigners the worst thing about Korea when it's the employers doing that? We are tired of being dumped on by employers, a government that turns too much of a blind eye, and people saying we should only be all smiles.
Matt's apology is more than great. I know he is a great guy. I am sure Christianna loves Korea and Koreans, and that's a good thing, but, perhaps, she should bother to research what happens to so many foreigners including Korean Americans at hagwons. A Korean American female I know doesn't paint a rosy picture of the country. She feels shafted at her job, I imagine. Some people think just because they have a good job, then everyone else must be in the same situation and feel like them.
Sadly, it's not the reality. I have a good job. I get my pension and health insurance. I had to fight for my pension and health insurance at my first job. I didn't really care about ajummas or whatever bumping into me. |
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Otherside
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| Scotticus wrote: |
| Otherside wrote: |
The amount of mindless whining and bitching that goes on, on this board is testamount to a certain Western attitude I'm glad for the most part to be rid of. Not to mention, the quality of people Korea attracts is pretty low. I'm not saying every apple is bad, but rather, there are enough bad apples on the tree that I'd rather not have an apple and have an orange instead. |
I love that there are people who really and truly believe that Dave's ESL is indicative of the greater expat community. Congratulations, you epically fail at critical thinking. |
I don't think that the people on Dave's represent the greater expat community. Neither do I think the crowd in Hongdae on a Friday night represent the greater expat community. However, both of those groups represent a sizable portion of the expat community (and in many cases may be one and the same).
Yet back to my original comment, I said the "people on Daves represent an attitude I dislike". NOT, "the people on Dave's which represent the greater expat population, represent an attitude I dislike".
Congratulations, you epically fail at comprehension. |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| okokok wrote: |
| tzechuk wrote: |
| Quote: |
| ....... to the university student giving up his seat for an old woman on the bus, it's an experience in altruism. |
I have yet to see this happening. Most students I see turn their faces AWAY when they see an older woman or man getting on the train. |
She read it in a book somewhere. |
Or saw it on Arirang TV. |
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Scotticus
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| Christianna Lee wrote: |
| A wise colleague once remarked that "the worst thing about Korea is the foreigners" and I'm inclined to agree. |
| Otherside wrote: |
I'm sorry, but I'm almost inclined to agree with the quote in question.
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Yeah. Now, why would I get the impression that you were talking about all expats. Oh, maybe because that's exactly what you said? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| Otherside wrote: |
I'm sorry, but I'm almost inclined to agree with the quote in question.
Many posters on this board complain about OTHER foreigners in Korea, and to be honest we are a pretty uncouth lot. The more time I spend in Korea, the less time I spend with other foreigners. (The last time I actually hung out with other foreigners, outisde of a GEPIK meeting was in January).
The amount of mindless whining and bitching that goes on, on this board is testamount to a certain Western attitude I'm glad for the most part to be rid of. Not to mention, the quality of people Korea attracts is pretty low. I'm not saying every apple is bad, but rather, there are enough bad apples on the tree that I'd rather not have an apple and have an orange instead.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=143522&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= |
Many people don't even bother posting on Dave's ESL Cafe, and even if they did, it wouldn't make them the worst thing about Korea, IMHO.
The worst thing about Korea is not us foreigners whether we're teachers,
Indian or Phillipino workers, but the ease with which employers can get away with ignoring labor laws. Believe me, it's not only Westerners.
I've said this before, a friend's Phillipino boyfriend who left Korea has no desire to come back here and work. Korea needs to learn English in order to interact with the rest of the world. So are we truly the worst thing in Korea?
As far as I understand, Phillipinos are not Westerners, they are from the East. Who likes being shafted? It's rather simple, man. Not only is getting shafted common, but articles saying nice things about foreigners from any country are so few and far in between.
The Korean press can only dump on foreigners. It's not a good thing, my friend. Do you really think it's only Westerners?
As far as the Western posters who say prejudicial things, I think people need to treat Koreans fairly and remember the problems that also exist in their homelands. As for me, I don't really care about people bumping into me.
I just want my holidays, the pension, the health insurance, the laws followed. In general, I want to be treated essentially the same way we treat people from this country back home. It's called reciprocity.
What's so wrong with asking for that? No one forced the government to pass their own laws that they are not enforcing adequately.
I think there are generally more positives in Korea than the contrary, but let's not be ostriches with our hands in the sand. When I was a newbie, I was one of the hugest defenders of Korea, and I thought others were just being intolerant. Of course, I think some of the prejudice you see on the forum is horrible. However, plenty of that is dished out vis-a-vis foreigners and foreigners then have a bad reaction to it. The proper reaction is having a positive reaction, trying to build bridges.
That's my opinion... |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:39 am Post subject: Re: Regret |
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| KHerald wrote: |
You guys are definitely right in that it should not have been printed.
I am trying to make content for expats in Korea and this was something that slipped by me. I read dozens of articles and columns every day and I skimmed over that one at too fast a pace.
Christianna means well in her usual column when she writes about arts in Korea, mostly Daegu (which is seriously underrepresented in media).
I work hard to keep generalizations of all kinds out of Expat Living (unlike another English newspaper). There is so much good that expats in Korea do, and there is so much in Korea to see and experience -- and that is my focus.
In short, I am sorry and this will not happen again.
Matt
([email protected]) |
Wow, I've gotta say, I was about to lump the KH in with the KT, but posting like this is a solid.
Thanks Matt. (but I still subscribe the the JoongAhn) |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| Otherside wrote: |
| I'm sorry, but I'm almost inclined to agree with the quote in question. ["A wise colleague once remarked that 'the worst thing about Korea is the foreigners' and I'm inclined to agree."] |
You should be sorry.
If you don't understand how racist this statement is, let me demonstrate by tweaking the wording just a little bit.
"The worst thing about New York City are the Italians."
"The worst thing about Texas are the Mexicans."
"The worst thing about Little Tokyo are the Koreans."
"The worst thing about Koreatown are the Pakistanis."
"The worst thing about Mississippi are the Negroes."
"The worst thing about Romania are the Gypsies."
"The worst thing about Yugoslavia are the Muslims."
"The worst thing about Germany are the Jews."
If you say that the worst thing about Country X is Group-of-people-Y (or GoPY), then you are implying that some, or even most, of Country X's ills are connected to, or can be traced to, GoPY. The logical next step is to "get rid of" GoPY, since once they're gone, so will much of Country X's problems.
This statement is the very definition of racism and belongs in Mein Kampf, not in a newspaper. |
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DrOctagon
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| Troll_Bait wrote: |
| Otherside wrote: |
| I'm sorry, but I'm almost inclined to agree with the quote in question. ["A wise colleague once remarked that 'the worst thing about Korea is the foreigners' and I'm inclined to agree."] |
You should be sorry.
If you don't understand how racist this statement is, let me demonstrate by tweaking the wording just a little bit.
"The worst thing about New York City are the Italians."
"The worst thing about Texas are the Mexicans."
"The worst thing about Little Tokyo are the Koreans."
"The worst thing about Koreatown are the Pakistanis."
"The worst thing about Mississippi are the Negroes."
"The worst thing about Romania are the Gypsies."
"The worst thing about Yugoslavia are the Muslims."
"The worst thing about Germany are the Jews."
If you say that the worst thing about Country X is Group-of-people-Y (or GoPY), then you are implying that some, or even most, of Country X's ills are connected to, or can be traced to, GoPY. The logical next step is to "get rid of" GoPY, since once they're gone, so will much of Country X's problems.
This statement is the very definition of racism and belongs in Mein Kampf, not in a newspaper. |
Amen brotha. |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:11 am Post subject: Re: Regret |
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| KHerald wrote: |
You guys are definitely right in that it should not have been printed.
I am trying to make content for expats in Korea and this was something that slipped by me. I read dozens of articles and columns every day and I skimmed over that one at too fast a pace.
Christianna means well in her usual column when she writes about arts in Korea, mostly Daegu (which is seriously underrepresented in media).
I work hard to keep generalizations of all kinds out of Expat Living (unlike another English newspaper). There is so much good that expats in Korea do, and there is so much in Korea to see and experience -- and that is my focus.
In short, I am sorry and this will not happen again.
Matt
([email protected]) |
Thank you for clarifying and for admitting that a mistake had been made. If you had been busy reading a lot of articles, then I could see how that sentence may have slipped by you, seeing as how the rest of the article was kind of reasonable, if a little naive and seen through rose-colored glasses.
However, I'm not prepared to let Christianna off the hook just yet. For reasons that I outlined in my previous post, that statement was absolutely repugnant. Either she accidentally revealed a dark aspect of herself, or something else that she was trying to say came out all jumbled and wrong. Either she's racist or she can't write very well. |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:17 am Post subject: |
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I think what this recent spate of xenophobic articles has demonstrated how disenfranchised a lot of the Korean press is with the real issues facing foreigners in Korean society. Such irresponsible journalism is also evidence of how foreigners and their plight will never fully be understood for what it really is and also how the many good deeds that foreigners do and the benefit they bring will also never reach the light of day here.
I hardly ever see any pieces focusing on the treatment of foreign workers who have been left empty handed and been treated so disgracefully on these shores. Yet there seems to be no end of people willing to lump 'foreigners' into one bunch and write such tenuous, defamating, negative and poorly argued articles which serve no purpose but to act as a unison of hate speech that panders to Koreans' own self-fulfilling ideas of why foreigners are here.
Adventurer's words on this thread are succinct and straight to the point. |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:18 am Post subject: Re: Regret |
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That line says a lot more about her (and her insecurities) then it does the foreigners she professes of.
| Troll_Bait wrote: |
| KHerald wrote: |
You guys are definitely right in that it should not have been printed.
I am trying to make content for expats in Korea and this was something that slipped by me. I read dozens of articles and columns every day and I skimmed over that one at too fast a pace.
Christianna means well in her usual column when she writes about arts in Korea, mostly Daegu (which is seriously underrepresented in media).
I work hard to keep generalizations of all kinds out of Expat Living (unlike another English newspaper). There is so much good that expats in Korea do, and there is so much in Korea to see and experience -- and that is my focus.
In short, I am sorry and this will not happen again.
Matt
([email protected]) |
Thank you for clarifying and for admitting that a mistake had been made. If you had been busy reading a lot of articles, then I could see how that sentence may have slipped by you, seeing as how the rest of the article was kind of reasonable, if a little naive and seen through rose-colored glasses.
However, I'm not prepared to let Christianna off the hook just yet. For reasons that I outlined in my previous post, that statement was absolutely repugnant. Either she accidentally revealed a dark aspect of herself, or something else that she was trying to say came out all jumbled and wrong. Either she's racist or she can't write very well. |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| I agree with many of the posters here. Pretty pathetic bit of journalism here. |
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Otherside
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Troll_Bait wrote: |
| Otherside wrote: |
| I'm sorry, but I'm almost inclined to agree with the quote in question. ["A wise colleague once remarked that 'the worst thing about Korea is the foreigners' and I'm inclined to agree."] |
You should be sorry.
If you don't understand how racist this statement is, let me demonstrate by tweaking the wording just a little bit.
"The worst thing about New York City are the Italians."
"The worst thing about Texas are the Mexicans."
"The worst thing about Little Tokyo are the Koreans."
"The worst thing about Koreatown are the Pakistanis."
"The worst thing about Mississippi are the Negroes."
"The worst thing about Romania are the Gypsies."
"The worst thing about Yugoslavia are the Muslims."
"The worst thing about Germany are the Jews."
If you say that the worst thing about Country X is Group-of-people-Y (or GoPY), then you are implying that some, or even most, of Country X's ills are connected to, or can be traced to, GoPY. The logical next step is to "get rid of" GoPY, since once they're gone, so will much of Country X's problems.
This statement is the very definition of racism and belongs in Mein Kampf, not in a newspaper. |
Point taken. Your rewording of it opened my eyes. I suppose I was just venting regarding recent experiences I've had with other foreigners.
I'm sorry. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Regret |
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Thank you for clarifying and for admitting that a mistake had been made. If you had been busy reading a lot of articles, then I could see how that sentence may have slipped by you, seeing as how the rest of the article was kind of reasonable, if a little naive and seen through rose-colored glasses.
However, I'm not prepared to let Christianna off the hook just yet. For reasons that I outlined in my previous post, that statement was absolutely repugnant. Either she accidentally revealed a dark aspect of herself, or something else that she was trying to say came out all jumbled and wrong. Either she's racist or she can't write very well.[/quote][/quote]
Stevie, I do not expect anyone to have perfect thoughts mind you, but her words speak volumes and so does her article. She seemed to be comparing New York City to Korea, and she only talked about Korea in glowing terms, and seemed to state that foreigners complaints were mostly about being pushed by ajummas, which is definitely not the truth.
She looks at the country she started living in with rose-colored glasses. I guess that's somewhat understandable since she is new. It's her first contract, it appears.
The majority of Americans are very similar to a very large percentage of Americans. They are going to be the same as many still back there. So, are Americans the worst thing about Korea or are the Canadians? Also, is she including Asian foreigners? Many of the foreigners from undeveloped nations have similar complaints as we do.
I hope she will examine her statement and see that it was simply not kind, and I hope that the Korean press will try to print stories about how we help the students learn English. What about interviewing schools and asking them about their teachers and saying nice things about us.
One reason we complain, I think, is because of overdose of xenophobia in the press. We also do have many foreigners who had trouble being paid on time, getting their pension, health insurance, or getting terminated in the 11th month, and reducing all the problems to ungrateful Americans or Westerners who just have ajummas to complain about is a clear illustration of the principle of reductio ad absurdum.
I just hope Christianna will think of things in a more panoramic way and show some empathy. Some people from all nationalities, actually, do have legitimate concerns.
By the way, I did know a Phillipino who sometimes worked 24 hours straight at his factory. I thought I was so lucky not be in his shoes.
I felt really bad for him. I thanked my lucky stars that I was a teacher, though my last job sure worked me like a dog. My current is so heavenly in comparison. I love it in comparison.
Anyway, Christianna, if you're reading this. Do be kinder next time.
We are people, we are human beings, and we ain't all so bad, and we do need to get paid, have holidays. It's normal, and Korea is nice, and we want to enjoy it more. |
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