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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:00 am Post subject: What's the deal with working at a Uni? |
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Last edited by fustiancorduroy on Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:30 am Post subject: |
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There are so many factors.
I have a friend who teaches middle and high school kids out in the boonies, and he has no interest in giving it up for a university job -- despite the vacation.
University jobs can be nice, but they're also a lot of work, if you are doing your job properly. |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Drawbacks of a university job:
1. decent pay at best (how many jobs pay more than 2.5 million a month?), crap pay at worst
2. lower-level students (most classes seem to be basic conversation)
3. generally less control over grading and curriculum (can't flunk students)
4. may require teaching young children at camps |
(numbers are mine)
At my uni:
1. Base salary is over 2.5, and that is base. Add 30-50 grand per hour overtime brings it up closer to 3.5-4 million a month, sometimes much more if you teach during the vacations.
2. Basic conversation? Some overtime conversation classes, sure, but the standard classes teach what you expect in an American university (but geared toward EFL students)
3. Not at my uni. I can give whatever grade I want as long as I don't go over the curve limit (can't give too many As or Bs)
4. No way
Not all unis are good, some are downright crap, just like hogwans.
FLHSs really pay up to 5 million? Really, what is the average? |
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makemischief
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Location: Traveling
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: What's the deal with working at a Uni? |
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| fustiancorduroy wrote: |
Drawbacks of a university job:
- decent pay at best (how many jobs pay more than 2.5 million a month?), crap pay at worst
- lower-level students (most classes seem to be basic conversation)
- generally less control over grading and curriculum (can't flunk students)
- may require teaching young children at camps
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I can't speak for the FLHS scene- but to address the above:
a. many in Seoul pay more than 2.5, and a handful (or slightly more) of them exceed 3- however, in order to compare compensation packages, the important question of whether they pay for housing needs to be factored in. I've got a friend working at an international high school here who gets paid so much I must resist the urge to rob him- though he works in the middle of nowhere.
b. REALLY depends on where you are teaching. at a low level uni the classes are often, well, low. obviously an elite FLHS would often have higher level students than that- however there are many unis offering higher level classes.
c. only at bad unis. do they exist? absolutely. but at many schools you have grade control.
d. surprising rare. in seoul only a smidgen of universities have mandatory camps for children. a larger number require you to work an intensive program for uni age students, but many don't.
Cheers and good luck deciding! |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: What's the deal with working at a Uni? |
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| fustiancorduroy wrote: |
Drawbacks of a university job:
1- decent pay at best (how many jobs pay more than 2.5 million a month?), crap pay at worst
2- lower-level students (most classes seem to be basic conversation)
3- generally less control over grading and curriculum (can't flunk students)
4- may require teaching young children at camps |
1- at a bad uni maybe, the good ones pay.
2- depends what you're teaching... mandatory freshman English can sometimes be a nightmares with the ability levels and student apathy, but upper level courses and EAP classes can be wonderful to teach
3- again, at a bad uni maybe; my uni allows me to grade as I wish, and I have no grade curve to meet either. Complete freedom.
4- FORCED camps? that's the sign of a bad uni.
| Quote: |
Benefits of a FLHS job:
- fastidious, intelligent students |
| Quote: |
| Different strokes for different folks, I guess? |
Yup. Personally, after experiences in both Korean and Canadian PS, I pretty much vowed to never teach such grade-levels again. Uni and adults only. But that's be. Friends of mine are the opposite, and can't stand teaching the older students.
Just because you are a teacher does not mean you have the inclination or aptitude to teach students of ALL ages. I have the utmost respect for teachers who can teach at elementary school, who both enjoy their job and who do it well. I wouldn't be able to do either. |
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Scott in Incheon
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| One of the benefits of uni working is that your off time is your own time. Many high schools want you in the school at your desk all day. I can sleep in on the days that I have afternoon classes and go home just as I finish my last class. I think this is a huge plus for uni working. |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: What's the deal with working at a Uni? |
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| fustiancorduroy wrote: |
Benefits of a university job:
- short working hours
- good amount of vacation (2-5 months a year)
- older, (hopefully) more mature students
- prestige
Drawbacks of a university job:
- decent pay at best (how many jobs pay more than 2.5 million a month?), crap pay at worst
- lower-level students (most classes seem to be basic conversation)
- generally less control over grading and curriculum (can't flunk students)
- may require teaching young children at camps |
For my situation:
+
-true
-true - 5 months
-true (for the most part)
-I suppose in theory
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-not even close to being true
-the level of my students is generally great. There are a few weak students in each freshmen class, but other than that, I find them to be pretty good.
-full control over grades except for that can't give too many A's. As well, every time a student has complained about a grade, I have never had to change it.
-no children ever. |
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meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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I know this is going to get me in trouble, but ...
How reputable can these universities be if they hire people with a B.A.?
Where I come from, 'professor' is reserved for a univeristy teacher of the highest rank. |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 1:46 am Post subject: Re: What's the deal with working at a Uni? |
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Interesting replies on here. It seems we have some elite university instructors here on Dave's. I just wanted to address a couple points some have raised.
| Bibbitybop wrote: |
| FLHSs really pay up to 5 million? Really, what is the average? |
Yes, FLHSs really pay up to 5 million a month, and some even more. But these are generally for overseas study programs, where you'd teach AP-level classes, not working as an English language instructor. One of the better offers is Hanyong FLHS's OSP. The starting salary is 4 million a month plus 20 million won key money for about 10-18 hours of teaching a week and about 3.5 months of vacation. But you do have to be in the office 40 hours a week, though teaching AP-level classes might require that much prep time, anyway.
But perhaps the best-paying job would be Daewon's GLP. Getting in is ultra-competitive, but the pay and students make it worth it. Starting pay is 100K won an hour. Most teachers have a 3-day workweek with a total of 12 hours of class. At the end of the month, that's 4.8 million. And they give pay raises of at least 5K won per hour per year, more if you're really good. One teacher, a former lawyer, makes 130K won an hour according to the program's director. At 12 classes a week, that's over 6.2 million a month.
The average pay, however, is definitely lower, probably around 2.5 million a month. But considering some unis still pay less than 2 million, the average for FLHSs is probably still higher that for unis.
| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| Quote: |
Benefits of a FLHS job:
- fastidious, intelligent students |
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I can't speak for all FLHS students, but the majority of my students, about 80% or so, were fastidious and quite intelligent, especially the older students. Regardless of the topics covered in class, ranging from self-evolution through manipulating our genes to single-sex schooling, most of the students had genuinely intelligent observations and weren't shy about expressing them.
Beyond this, the quality of their work was also excellent. For example, I required my students to give in-class presentations on the topic of their choice. Some students grouped together and made short films with 20-odd page scripts, while others gave presentations on the plight of SH Asian workers in Korea. Needless to say, I was quite impressed.
Having that, the school I worked for is consistently ranked as not only the best high school in Korea, but also among the best in the world. Many students end up going to college at Ivy League schools in the US. Those who stay in Korea end up going to the SKY schools. Overall, I'm pretty confident that the average FLHS student, at least the ones at my school, are better at English and probably, quite honestly, smarter than the average college student here in Korea.
At least, that's how I see it. |
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Rory_Calhoun27
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Is dating your students against your contract, or is that just more frowned upon?
'Cuz with FRIENDS logic, it can go both ways.... to Ross it's just frowned upon, but not so much to his bosses. |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| So, the point of this thread was actually for the OP to come on a brag about his job. Cool, haha. |
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jackson7
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: Kim Jong Il's Future Fireball
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| meangradin wrote: |
I know this is going to get me in trouble, but ...
How reputable can these universities be if they hire people with a B.A.?
Where I come from, 'professor' is reserved for a univeristy teacher of the highest rank. |
But where you come from (if it's North America), IEPs at universities and colleges only require an MA/MSEd to teach in their EFL/ESL department. You're an instructor, just as you are here (or lecturer, etc.). The tenure-track professor positions are still reserved for PhD/EdD holders, although I imagine here in Korea, holding a related master's in addition to publishing and being active in professional groups/conferences would likely earn you a spot. I only know of one tenure-track member on Dave's...PRagic, I believe? |
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The_Source
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott in Incheon wrote: |
| One of the benefits of uni working is that your off time is your own time. Many high schools want you in the school at your desk all day. I can sleep in on the days that I have afternoon classes and go home just as I finish my last class. I think this is a huge plus for uni working. |
Korean university jobs are moving away from this and requiring their teachers to desk-warm all day. BNUE is one example that requires you to be either at your desk or teaching a class from 9AM-6PM every day. |
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makemischief
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Location: Traveling
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Source wrote: |
| Scott in Incheon wrote: |
| One of the benefits of uni working is that your off time is your own time. Many high schools want you in the school at your desk all day. I can sleep in on the days that I have afternoon classes and go home just as I finish my last class. I think this is a huge plus for uni working. |
Korean university jobs are moving away from this and requiring their teachers to desk-warm all day. BNUE is one example that requires you to be either at your desk or teaching a class from 9AM-6PM every day. |
Job conditions cycle at a lot of schools. BNUE may be getting worse, but the contractual terms at places like Soongsil and Korea University recently got better (not an endorsement of either school- just saying they've had improvements in their contracts). As far as I am aware Seoul universities haven't gone that way.  |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Cripes, I work 2 days a week at my univ. this semester. It's actually 3, if you count my 3 hour "office hours" day. Then again, I think I'm only obligated to keep 2 office hours. Heck, I'm usually there for 4 on that day, anyway. They never seem to check or ask, much less make us "desk sit". |
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