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Libertarian Paradise

 
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject: Libertarian Paradise Reply with quote

Here's a vacation ad for the Libertarian Paradise:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/06/somalia-libertarian-parad_n_197763.html

Enjoy Exclamation
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dporter



Joined: 26 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want one of these

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/startups/magazine/17-02/mf_seasteading
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Libertarian Paradise Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Here's a vacation ad for the Libertarian Paradise:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/06/somalia-libertarian-parad_n_197763.html

Enjoy Exclamation


There's no rule of law. That's not a paradise for any serious political theorist.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I can remember two or three threads exactly like this in the past. In fact, ya-ta, I think you actually posted something exactly like this during the Ron Paul burnup.

Ya-ta, read Reason Magazine, or their blog, and not the huffington post if you want to learn about classical liberalism. Just like I won't get my opinions about Obama from the tea baggers. Hacks, all.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Libertarian Paradise Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
There's no rule of law.


That's not precisely true. While a single, centralized legislative and judicial system such as the one we have in most countries doesn't meaningfully exist, Somalian Xeer Law is still in effect in much of their society. This is why things like communities can still exist there. Here's a brief essay about a business man's experience with this system.

This Xeer Law actually seems like it should be very intellectually appealing to Libertarians. Decisions are made at a regional level, so if you disagree with the rulings in a certain area you can move to another. No formal taxation. Best of all, it leaves business almost totally unregulated overall; if your business practices do harm, or you try to reneg on agreements, the heads of the local tribes will call you to task. Otherwise, you can do as you will with what you own and fulfill your agreements with others to the best of your capabilities.

The fact that this system hasn't lead to Somalian prosperity doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Somalia is the embodiment of local government, no taxes, no social services, and no regulation.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an ad. A comic ad. It's even labelled as such. What makes it funny is the core of truth in it, especially since it includes that hairy cowboy type saying something like: We don't want the gov't to do anything for us. This is the same reason Colbert is so funny.

And satire has always been a legitimate form of political commentary: see Aristophanes.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Libertarian Paradise Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Kuros wrote:
There's no rule of law.


The fact that this system hasn't lead to Somalian prosperity doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Somalia is the embodiment of local government, no taxes, no social services, and no regulation.


Somalia may be an embodiment of local government, no taxes, no social services, and no regulation.

But its also an example of a country torn apart by warlords, where there's no single, unitary national security structure.

Its a joke to assert that this is what libertarianism is or might be. And apparently that's all it is.

Ha.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Libertarian Paradise Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Somalia may be an embodiment of local government, no taxes, no social services, and no regulation.

But its also an example of a country torn apart by warlords, where there's no single, unitary national security structure.

Its a joke to assert that this is what libertarianism is or might be. And apparently that's all it is.

Ha.


Yes, it's a joke. As Ya-ta Boy points out, though, the reason it's funny is because it has some truth to it as well.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if a non-conforming gay hippie would enjoy it there... Drum circles and free condoms on the campus of the local uni.
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Axl Rose



Joined: 16 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honest to freaking god, the riffraff on this board defies commentary. Seriously, are you edumacated in the least bit, Yataboy?

Libertarian paradise = SOMALIA??

What is so controversial and difficult to understand and ambiguous about libertarianism? Some people - conservatives - support laissez-faire (or as close to laissez-faire as reasonably possible). We do too. Some people - conservatives - support the use of state power to stop same sex marriages, drug-use and abortions. We don't. We are economic conservatives who are social liberals.

Sound like Somalia to you?

idiots
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mole



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Act III

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, man!
I never heard it put quite that way.
Though I may fit in the riffraff, or less academically inclined group,
Two Thumbs Up!
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soviet_man



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bit of history.

First you have a traditional African country ... with a fabulous coastline, great cuisine, rich spices and a pretty, strategic, location.

Then British, Italian, Portuguese and French imperialists came ... pillaged, raped and disrupted indigenous life there and dragged next door neighbor Ethiopia into the mess.

Suffice to say the native Somalis were none too pleased with this and finally turned to Soviet help to put things back in order. There were early attempts to implement socialism in Somalia in the 1960s and 1970s. Modest gains were made. There were periods of relative stability in the country.

However capitalism had already taken deep root and a culture of rising competition between tribes, clans, the haves and have nots caused many new political formations to emerge ... to the point of armed resistance and ultimately a full-scale civil war.

So here we are in 2009. The Somalis today are still paying the heavy price for the actions of European colonialists of 3 and 4 generations ago. Capitalism was never a solution for Somalia then and offers no prospect now.

If anything, I would argue that free markets are pushing Somalis toward radical islam as a solution to economic inequality.

It is clear - the only period of stability was the socialist period of the 1960s-1970s and one that must be returned to.
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