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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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 Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 5:55 am Post subject: The UK's descent into Politaclly Correct Hell/Michael Savage |
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I haven't posted here for years, but this story demands attention from all of you. When an ally bans a citizen of a fellow ally for falling afoul of politically-correct parameters of expression, the West is truly in trouble
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8037025.stm
If you are British, I urge you to contact your Ambassador in Seoul, and to encourage him to retract the travel ban imposed on Michael Savage. Even if you find everything the man says to be repugnant, your own freedom is at stake,
The man HAS NEVER advocated ANY sort of violence, yet he was lumped together with Russian Racist Murderers and Islamic Terrorist murderers.
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wuzza
Joined: 02 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Personally I think a lot of what Savage says goes beyond offending the PC crowd. He has made disparaging comments on pretty much every ethnic group, including autistic children.
Some of what he has says I have heard first hand, other times I just read the quotes so it's possible he was taken out of context.
I hate these fundamentalists (of any creed) that preach nothing but hate and division, and then turn around and say, "Well I'm not a terrorist, I never advocated violence". It's the coward's way out.
I also think the British should be allowed keep out whomever they like, just as any country can. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Voltaire wrote: |
| I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. |
People have a right to travel. It is not a privilege granted by a state. Any state which engages in such behavior is in violation of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
If Michael Savage could persuade the United States to take his case to the International Human Rights Court, he'd have a winner. Fat chance of that however, seeing as how the USA violates this right repeatedly and continuously. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| People have a right to travel. It is not a privilege granted by a state. Any state which engages in such behavior is in violation of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. |
Really? That makes the whole visa system illegal under UN law. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| RufusW wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| People have a right to travel. It is not a privilege granted by a state. Any state which engages in such behavior is in violation of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. |
Really? That makes the whole visa system illegal under UN law. |
I believe the section he is misinterpretting is this:
| U.N. Declaration of Universal Human Rights wrote: |
Article 13.
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country. |
In order for a country to be in violation of this, it has to either deny people all ready in the country freedom of movement, or it has to prevent someone who has commited no crime from leaving the country, or it has to deny a citizen re-entry. It can deny entrance to the country to any non-citizen without being in violation of this clause. |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: The UK's descent into Politaclly Correct Hell/Michael Sa |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
I haven't posted here for years, but this story demands attention from all of you. When an ally bans a citizen of a fellow ally for falling afoul of politically-correct parameters of expression, the West is truly in trouble
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8037025.stm
If you are British, I urge you to contact your Ambassador in Seoul, and to encourage him to retract the travel ban imposed on Michael Savage. Even if you find everything the man says to be repugnant, your own freedom is at stake,
The man HAS NEVER advocated ANY sort of violence, yet he was lumped together with Russian Racist Murderers and Islamic Terrorist murderers.
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I say let the bigot travel to England. Decisions such as this only serve to give the paranoids something to complain about. |
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Interested
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 1:29 am Post subject: |
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They are just following the US's descent into 'Politically Correct Hell.' For example, it is generally considered very un-PC in the US to accuse Israel of human rights abuses and the like, and it appears this "PC-ness gone mad" may be about to be enshrined in law.
Criminalizing Criticism of Israel
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On October 16, 2004, President George W. Bush signed the Israel Lobby�s bill, the Global Anti-Semitism Review Act. This legislation requires the US Department of State to monitor anti-semitism world wide.
To monitor anti-semitism, it has to be defined. What is the definition? Basically, as defined by the Israel Lobby and Abe Foxman, it boils down to any criticism of Israel or Jews.
Rahm Israel Emanuel hasn�t been mopping floors at the White House.
As soon as he gets the Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009 passed, it will become a crime for any American to tell the truth about Israel�s treatment of Palestinians and theft of their lands.
It will be a crime for Christians to acknowledge the New Testament�s account of Jews demanding the crucifixion of Jesus.
It will be a crime to report the extraordinary influence of the Israel Lobby on the White House and Congress, such as the AIPAC-written resolutions praising Israel for its war crimes against the Palestinians in Gaza that were endorsed by 100 per cent of the US Senate and 99 per cent of the House of Representatives, while the rest of the world condemned Israel for its barbarity. |
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Interested
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:13 am Post subject: |
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More PC-ness gone mad!
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William Robinson: Yes, good afternoon to everyone. I included some material which was highly critical of the Israeli invasion of Gaza as part of the reading material for a course on globalization and global affairs, and this was in January. And I am now facing charges, here at the university, of anti-semitism and violating the faculty code of conduct because two students in the course - there were eighty students - these two submitted a formal letter of complaint that they found offensive the material condemning the invasion of Gaza. The students immediately withdrew from the course, I don't even know them personally. And what is particularly egregious about this case is not that the students submitted a complaint - any student is allowed to do that - but rather that the university took the complaint seriously and is actually prosecuting me...
DH: You have tenure right?
WR: Yes, I am tenured, I am a full time professor...
DH: So in theory you're protected against persecution for your beliefs.
WR: No, in theory, I have total, I and even if I don't have tenure, have academic freedom, and this is in total violation of my academic freedom and of all of the principles of academic freedom, and of the university's own charter on academic freedom, and the American Association of University Professors principles and procedures on academic freedom, so there is absolutely no basis for any of this. What's going on, and I want to explain, behind the scenes we have been able to find out - students on campus and faculty have formed a Committee to Defend Academic Freedom which is taking up this issue, and by the way, there is a blog that they put up with all of this information, which at some point I would like to give your listeners - but we have found out that the Anti-Defamation League, which, as you know, and your listeners probably know, is an organization which, at one time, did very good and very important work in denouncing anti-Semitism, but since then has become a, basically, a mouthpiece for the Israeli government, a defender of the policies and practices of the Israeli state, and goes after and attacks anyone that criticizes those policies. So these students did not even accuse me of doing anything which we would consider anti-Semitism - discrimination against Jews, against the Jewish religion and so forth - they said openly and outright that the professor introduces material which criticized the state of Israel and that equals anti-semitism.
DH: Now, I think some people found offensive that you had likened Israeli behavior to the Nazis. Is that an issue?
WR: Well I didn't do that. What I did was I forwarded several items from the world media, from the internet media. One item was an article written by a Jewish journalist in a Jewish newspaper here in the United States, and it was criticizing the invasion of Gaza...
DH: So you didn't endorse this position?
WR: I didn't endorse it but I did include, I said, in presenting this material, I said that Gaza is Israel's Warsaw and I explained the context. That's because in Warsaw the Nazi's surrounded Warsaw, concentrated Jews in Warsaw, wouldn't let anyone in, wouldn't let anyone out, wouldn't let supplies in, wouldn't let supplies out; as a result there was famine and disease and so forth...
DH: Which is exactly what's...
WR: ...exactly and precisely what the Israeli's are doing in Gaza. And that's been denounced by the Red Cross, the United Nations, the international human rights organizations, and moreover, academic freedom totally allows me to present such controversial material and that's part of what the university is all about. We academically debate these controversial issues. I want to explain though what happened. We got some inside information in the last week. The president of the Anti-Defamation League Abraham Fox-...
DH: Foxman
WR: Foxman, he arrived here in Santa Barbara and he called a meeting with a select group of faculty, and he called the meeting for no other reason than to say that we want Professor Robinson prosecuted, and this is explosive. We have just learned about this; we're going to go public with it. And so there is this outside Israel lobby which has come on to campus, and which is accusing me of anti- Semitism and of doing all of these terrible things in order to create an atmosphere of complete intimidation. You know that anyone who criticizes the policies of the state of Israel is silenced, and is given that label of anti-smitism; that's a way of creating this atmosphere of intimidation, that no one can speak out about what's going on in Israel-Palestine, and so forth. That's the larger context. |
http://www.counterpunch.org/henwood04292009.html |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:30 am Post subject: |
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wuzzo wrote:
| Quote: |
| I hate these fundamentalists (of any creed) that preach nothing but hate and division, and then turn around and say, "Well I'm not a terrorist, I never advocated violence". It's the coward's way out. |
So is Chavez a fundamentalist for preaching hate against the U.S.? He also literally demonized a sitting American president. Should he also be banned from the UK?
Savage has never incited his listeners to violence but the Muslim preachers on that list all have. The Times of London's bureau chief in NY said recently on The Factor that non-Muslim names were added to the blacklist because the British government was afraid of a PC backlash in the form of accusations of racial profiling.
Savage (Michael Weiner) has a doctorate in botany and was an expert on Asian flora before turning to the airwaves. He is the one who promoted the apt term "Islamofascists." From 2003 to 2004 I listened to his show almost every day while taking a breather from postdoctoral studies and I never once heard him spew out hate toward any group, including Arabs, although he is not fond of Arab societies in the main. The guy is well-traveled, articulate and, yes, provocative but he is not in the same league as the skinheads and others. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| RufusW wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| People have a right to travel. It is not a privilege granted by a state. Any state which engages in such behavior is in violation of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. |
Really? That makes the whole visa system illegal under UN law. |
No, only when visas are denied.
| Fox wrote: |
I believe the section he is misinterpretting is this:
| U.N. Declaration of Universal Human Rights wrote: |
Article 13.
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country. |
In order for a country to be in violation of this, it has to either deny people all ready in the country freedom of movement, or it has to prevent someone who has commited no crime from leaving the country, or it has to deny a citizen re-entry. It can deny entrance to the country to any non-citizen without being in violation of this clause. |
You are very quick to accuse me of misinterpretation.
How exactly is a person supposed to effectively exercise his right to "leave any country, including his own" if he is refused entry into another one? Or do you interpret this as meaning one has the right to be adrift at sea in international waters or in Antarctica? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:17 am Post subject: |
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The interesting thing is, is that MS didn't express an interest in visiting the UK.
I'll help you all out.
The UK has a massive muslim population that is expanding at a rate of 10x the infidel population. Many of these muslims are foaming at the mouth crazy with muslim hate. The government feels pressure to crack down on muslim hate speech, but can't seem "discriminatory", so to balance the reality of a muslim hate takeover, they pick out a few white, christian (and preferably American!) "hate" types to ban from the country. This gives them the illusion of balance.
It is just guilt ridden white people trying to deal with the end of their ideology. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Who cares about how many Muslims are moving to/living in the UK.
The issue is the Government of the UK ABDICATING its support of free speech.
As an American, I never thought the UK mattered much, considering they maintained something as absurd as a Queen/King....I am confident my ancestors felt pretty much similarly...never thinking a diminishing power mattered.....
But now, this diminished nation....has a government official, that CHOOSES to ban a citizen of a longtime ally for nothing more than POLITICALLY INCORRECT SPEECH....
when can we start the official funeral for England??? |
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Neil
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Let him in, he's a *beep* but if the US lets in our twats (Galloway and Griffin) then there should be some agreement. If it's any consolation Jackie Smith the current home secretary is on borrowed time, over both ID cards and scandles from her husbands business dealings....also there is going to be an election sometime in 2010 which the current gov don't have a chance......the recent fiasco about the gurkas has been the last straw for a lot of labour loyalists back home.
Mises, the UK muslim population is 2.7% as of the last cenus as far as I know. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
RufusW wrote:
bacasper wrote:
People have a right to travel. It is not a privilege granted by a state. Any state which engages in such behavior is in violation of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Really? That makes the whole visa system illegal under UN law.
No, only when visas are denied.
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Well, if a government can't reserve the right to disallow a visa, then it kind of makes the whole idea of a visa system pointless. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
RufusW wrote:
bacasper wrote:
People have a right to travel. It is not a privilege granted by a state. Any state which engages in such behavior is in violation of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Really? That makes the whole visa system illegal under UN law.
No, only when visas are denied.
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Well, if a government can't reserve the right to disallow a visa, then it kind of makes the whole idea of a visa system pointless. |
No, because the visa system allows a government to keep track of who enters the country. |
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