Korean Job Discussion Forums

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

It was more beleivable than the story it was lampooning.

However, to take up with Gwangjuboy, I'll step in and say yes, Homer is the most predictable poster on the board, any criticism of Korea and Koreans will immediately draw the response of "But they're not all like that, and people in other countries do that too". He's the ultimate western apologist for Korea, whether he likes the term or not. I haven't quite got to the point of skipping his posts yet though, cause he gives me reasons to write serious posts, and people like him need to be WATCHED CLOSELY ! ! !

[Homer]

Keep watching ky-boy...

So if I am the "ultimate" apologist then you have to be the ultimate egocentric westerner with more than a dash of arrogance thrown in for flavor....
To each his or her label Ky-boy...hope you enjoy yours.

Oh by the way, call me what you wish (apologist in this case) but why is it that people trying to show that there are good as well as bad things on here get tagged apologists and that those that just come here and vent usually go on without the blessing of one of your famous tags?

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

[Homer]

Ok, lets see Ky-boy,

a) I don't think everything is fine here. Not at all.

b) I am also a "long timer" here.

Lets address your ideas

1- "What ever it is you have to jump through a lot of semantic and logical hoops to maintain your stance, and I see your determination to push one side of things as very dishonest. "

Thats your opinion and a good example of the way you approach things on here: categorically. Its always framed in the "I am right, you are wrong" format.
I am not "pushing" anything. I am statting my opinion. I try to look at things from different angles and to avoid categorical and sweeping statements. I also always try to remember whats in my backyard before tossing stones in someone elses. I do not think Korea and Koreans are perfect. Far from it. Much like I do not look at westerners as all bad. Those kinds of positions are equally worhtless to me as they have no credibility.

2- "And it's funny you should call me ego-centric, because I find that you are highly self referential in the way you arrive at your findings, ie you've never experienced blah blah blah here so therefore it doesn't happen or the person was unlucky or did something to bring it on themselves. "

As for calling you ego-centric, I was merely serving you the same medicine you serve others on here with your categorical, "I cannot be wrong" posts.
I am self referential because I draw from what I see and read, like most rational people. I never, not even closely, said that if it didn't happen to me it didn't exist. Thats your fabrication/interpretation of my posts. Some people are indeed unlucky or bring things onto themselves. But thats not the point of most of my responses. I try to look at things from different angles (like I said before). I also try not to apply incidents and pass them as general behaviors. If someone posts something along the lines of "all koreans are cheaters and they abuse foreigners" (which by the way happens a lot on here) then my natural response would be to doubt that and to say that possibly that person was applying a relatively limited incident and tagging a whole group with it. That sort of position is untenable in my view. I also think that many westerner who come here accuse Koreans of refusing to do what they themselves won't do: accept some of the differences.
I have never said that Koreans were without their faults. That would be dumb.

3-"Why do I think I present a more objective position? Because I have taken both pro and negative stances."

As do I my friend.

4- "Further, I don't just refer to my experiences when forming my position"

no you don't you also refer to your "infinite" and "superior" wisdom....a mysterious source of knowledge and thruth that only you possess.

5- "I myself am a long timer, and frankly having a very good time, but that doesn't mean I say everythings fine."

Same here, also a long-timer and I do not say everything is fine....never have.

6- "I don't think people come here as spoiled brats with a tendency to whine, I think most people come with sincerity, and when they encounter poor treatment based on race they rightfully dissapointed and here is just about the only place to do that. Your stance is to immediately undermine that process."

Neither do I my friend. Where did I say that? See the bad treatment they encounter can be based on race. I am dead certain it is the case sometimes. But, you must also consider that they can encounter ill treatment for other reasons, namely incompetence and refusal to adapt even a little. Neither case is general. I also have many, many friends here. I also now have family here (my wife's). If I am treated badly I usually try to understand why. Sometimes its because that particular Korean is indeed a racist pig. No one likes that.
Othertimes I see westerners treating Koreans like second class human beings, which of course is equally racist. I just find its a two way street and that one should try and see both sides of the coin.
My "stance" is not to undermine things. Again thats your interpretation.
I have no stake in defending Korea or Koreans. I just try to keep an open mind and not sink to the level of generalizations and base insults. I would disagree (and often do) with a Korean who talks about westerners in general terms just like I disagree with foreigners who like to paint all the same color.

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

[Homer]

Interesting points kiwiboy,

But your box just does not fit me..sorry.

I do not think racism is the same everywhere my man. I do think it is present everywhere but that it manifests itself differently.

Korea has ways to go on the road to protecting foreigners. No real debate there.
Our home nations,do indeed have laws on the books protecting people from racism. Thats also quite true.
However, racism is hard to measure, its not some easily quantifiable element.
In Korea its blatant. In the West is under the surface.
The demographic and ethnic dynamics are also different of course.
In Korea (as in many other asian nations) the population is largely homogenous ethnically.
This is the opposite in many western nations where the ethnic make up is diverse and has been for a while.
This creates different conditions which in turn affects how people see outsiders.
This to me explains the current level of racism in Korea. It does not excuse it.
I just find that a few people on here tend to see this racism, blow the whistle on it (which is ok in itself) and then proceed to whitewash their own home nations in comparison by calling them "better". This i find highly hypocritical.
I do not deny there is racism in Korea. I have helped friends who have suffered from it as well. I have also had to defend myself from it on a few occasions. I am not trivializing the experiences of others with racism, just trying to avoid the ole trap of generalizations.

[Psy]

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

[jajdude]

Good one Homer. Would like to see more posts like that.

[Homer]

Thanks jajdude....got a couple more in the pipeline...

[Eazy_E]

[wo buxihuan hanguoren]

[stevemcgarrett]

ilsanman wrote:

[uberscheisse]

[Vicissitude]