Korean Job Discussion Forums

[legalquestions]

Everyone seems to pretty much agree that Confucianism is no longer an ideal model for basing a society upon. It causes lots of problems, angst, frustration, etc. for those who are not senior males.

That got me to thinking - if it is not such a good deal for females and less senior males, then why did it evolve in the first place? Was it simply because the older males were physically able to force all the others to do as they said?

Any dime store psychologists/sociologists/anthropologists care to share your thoughts?

[nosmallplans]

go buy a book.

[dporter]

those who were in power said, if you want to get into a position of authority you need to go through this system of exams.

this accomplished two things:

1. it helped those who were in power to control who else got authority.
2. it gave those without power a sense of hope. 'if I can only pass these exams i can get a good gov't job.'

confucianism doesn't work well in a market economy because you no longer need to achieve levels via exams to have wealth.

[legalquestions]

Thanks, I already I bought the books (and read them). It's just that none of them really address the underlying cause/rationale/reason for the birth of Confucianism and why it was accepted by the masses as the correct paradigm to emulate. Know what I mean?

Just what, in human nature, would explain this? The only thing I can come up with is that mature males are simply physically stronger than both females and young males, and therefore forced their will upon them.

The older males, realizing that they had a good thing going, continued to exploit this system and someone named Confucious came along and decided to implement as public policy.

[roadwork]

[The Gipkik]

Two thousand five hundred years of tradition coupled with loyal followers or believers with more than a bit of power. Heck, authority figures love the guy.

[Koveras]

I presume because people thought that authority is a masculine and moreover a fatherly quality, and that this idea had some religious dimension for them that legitimised it, thereby eliminating the "angst and frustration" among the underprivileged, who felt equally that it was a good, just system. This thread is a bit like the one about "Chivalry" in the off-topic forum: only ignorant people could think that chilvary was all about being polite to women, and only ignorant people could think that Confucianism was all about being polite to old men. These were complete systems with obvious spiritual foundations.

[Koveras]

[Koveras]

The first thing to understand about ancient civilizations is that they were not centred on the material aspects of life, as modern civilization is, but were universally centred on the sacred and transcendent. That authority derives from below is a recent idea. In the past, all authority was somehow divine authority. Until you get this all of history will seem inexplicable to you, and you will misunderstand everything by projecting your own materialism and humanism back in time. I understand that most atheists will have trouble assimilating these ideas. How could a civilization be centred on things that doesn't exist, right?

[Tjames426]

Koveras...Good point

****
There are good things about Confucianism.

It is great that the older generation is respected.

Everyone has an understood role in society. Everyone understands their role in building up the family, community, society, and nation.

It is only when one abuses their role or rebels against it, problems develop.

Children are allowed to be children. Children study and learn. They learn what their duties are to society, to the older generation, and to one another.

[Joe666]

Koveras : The first thing to understand about ancient civilizations is that they were not centred on the material aspects of life, as modern civilization is, but were universally centred on the sacred and transcendent. That authority derives from below is a recent idea. In the past, all authority was somehow divine authority. Until you get this all of history will seem inexplicable to you, and you will misunderstand everything by projecting your own materialism and humanism back in time. I understand that most atheists will have trouble assimilating these ideas. How could a civilization be centred on things that doesn't exist, right?

I am a staunch atheist and I completely understand a civilazation based on the spiritual. What else was there in that time. There were very little if any material possessions, so it only makes sense to believe in something other than the material. A true atheist would understand that material possessions have absolutely nothing to do with believing in the absense of a deity. Pure evolution, period. I understand that atheism based on science and evolution has to be a fairly recent phenomena due to the time restraints of discovery. How would early man even come to the conclusion or idea of atheism?

[tzechuk]

Confucianism was never meant to be used for just women or those in lesser authority. It was meant for everyone - but.. as noted already, those in power used it to their advantage and things got out of hand.

Not a lot of difference between that and communism, or dictatorship...

[Jane]

I just finished reading the book: Confucius: A Philosopher for the Ages, written by Xu Yuanxiang.

The gist of it is that Confucius grew up during a turbulent time, and this influenced his development of Confucianism, which is essentially a philosophy or way to live that contributes to harmony, and his goals of social peace and stability.

The two main principles that make up Confucianism are propriety and benevolence. Confucius believed that propriety --rituals and carrying out your 'role' in life-- and benevolence --being good to others and showing compassion-- where intertwined.

"Propriety and benevolence are at the very core of Confucian thought. Propriety is the exterior manisfestation of benevolence, while benevolence is the interior content of propriety. So, we can say, propriety embodies benevolence, but not as an instrument or means to control others."

Confucius alse believed that everyone had a right to education, and established the first private school in China. He believe that open dialogue and free exchange of ideas was the only way to learn.

My two cents:

Anyone who has lived in Korea for any time probably notices a stark difference between the above description of Confucianism and the strain of Confucianism that exists today in Korea. In fact, despite its roots, "Korean Confucianism" is nothing what Confucius intended it to be.

The reason for this --and forgive me cuz I have a terrible memory for history-- is that during the Joseon dynasty, a certain king wanted to take control of the population, and he introduced a 'code' that all citizens had to abide by as a way to exercise power over the population. That 'code' is what you see today in Korea. Rigid, formal and unforgiving -- a far cry from the benevolent society that Confucius dreamed of 2500 years ago.

[cj1976]

One thing about Confucianism is that shit definitely falls downward. Meaning if you are in authority you are free to screw people over any which way you choose.

[michaelambling]