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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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superacidjax
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps we should start teaching Korean kids Cockney Rhyming Slang...
Now THAT would be Sparkling (tm) !! |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
He means 다른 땅 meaning another country, or 'other land'.
| Ruthdes wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
Once again some 아저씨 with delusions of Korean exceptionalism. Every other immigrant group in the world immigrates for money, but when it comes to the 단땅 it's somehow sordid. |
What does 단땅 mean? I can't find it in my dictionary and the online translator said it means "only the earth"!! It's not a word I've heard before. Thanks  |
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Actually it's a contraction of 단__ + 땅, and means somethign like 'home sweet homeland'. Somebody told me what the contracted syllable was but i forgot.
I saw 독도는단땅이에요 on a bathroom wall and spent about 2 hours trying to figure out what it meant before I flagged some guy down and got him to go into the bathroom with me (  ) and translate it. 땅 being motherland and the '단' contraction that he explained meaning 'sweet'. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Ilsanman wrote: |
He means 다른 땅 meaning another country, or 'other land'.
| Ruthdes wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
Once again some 아저씨 with delusions of Korean exceptionalism. Every other immigrant group in the world immigrates for money, but when it comes to the 단땅 it's somehow sordid. |
What does 단땅 mean? I can't find it in my dictionary and the online translator said it means "only the earth"!! It's not a word I've heard before. Thanks |
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Actually it's a contraction of 단__ + 땅, and means somethign like 'home sweet homeland'. Somebody told me what the contracted syllable was but i forgot.
I saw 독도는단땅이에요 on a bathroom wall and spent about 2 hours trying to figure out what it meant before I flagged some guy down and got him to go into the bathroom with me ( ) and translate it. 땅 being motherland and the '단' contraction that he explained meaning 'sweet'. |
Are you joking? You saw graffiti on a bathroom wall, spent two hours thinking about it, then got a guy to go into the bathroom with you to translate........okay...... |
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superacidjax
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Ignorance about native speaker teachers from another big |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| That said, if someone is very educated and from India or the Phillipines, then hire them. |
GREAT. Just what we need, Koreans highly trained in the English of Bangalore tech support specialists. lol..
It's interesting, because, although, they speak English in India, it seems like that dude on the other end of the tech support call can never understand me!
Joking aside, many educated Indians speak much better than many so-called "native" speakers.
Although, Indians don't typically have blue eyes, so who will the hakwons use for their advertising? (again, sarcasm dripping from my tougue..) |
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superacidjax
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
| Are you joking? You saw graffiti on a bathroom wall, spent two hours thinking about it, then got a guy to go into the bathroom with you to translate........okay...... |
Right... "Translating." Is that some idiom I'm missing? |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| superacidjax wrote: |
| poet13 wrote: |
| Shoot, how many people here know what "jump the shark" means? Or, "more front the Brighton"? or, "make bets in a burning house?" |
See those are ENGLISH English Idioms. Not REAL English idioms. No one understands ENGLISH English (not even the English.)
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"Jump the shark" is an American English expression. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:42 am Post subject: |
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Non-westerners might be fine for teaching elementary and even teaching idioms. Idioms are at their heart, just vocabulary. instead of individual words, they're individual phrases that have a special meaning. Its no big deal to find definitions online, with example sentences, etc
What they might not be able to teach is natural usage of them. For example how often do you use them? Some people learn some idioms then start to use them every sentence...I guess its good for practice, but its a bit strange to listen to.
However there are plenty of idioms which are UK and US/CAN specific. With many shared. Canada is pretty much exposed to all US idioms through the media, but it also gets higher british television exposure (more so 20 years ago than now) so it has perhaps a little more exposure to British idioms.
A brit probably wouldn't be any better at explaining an American idiom than an Indian would unless he spent a lot of time watching american TV/Movies/Living there
But he would be better at teaching general idiom usage. |
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superacidjax
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| "Jump the shark" is an American English expression. |
I stand corrected. It is American. I assumed since no one I've talked to here in the States has ever heard of it, that it had to be one of those Brit-slang things. I apologize to the British for assuming that they came up with such a dumb phrase.
It's still pretty darned obscure, originating from a 1977 episode of Happy Days. One guy coined the phrase in 1997, made a website and sold it.. It hardly qualifies as idiom, more like a silly, nearly-trademarked phrase, coined by an entertainment writer.
On another note, regarding idiom, I would expect that the goal in Korea would be to teach people standard English, suitable for business purposes. After all, most Koreans don't seem to be learning English in order to appreciate the finer details of gansta-rap, but in order to function in a global economy. So, I would expect that at the lower levels, non-native speaking countries' citizens (India et al..) would be perfectly fine for teaching in Korea.
Of course, I could be wrong. The lyrics of NWA or the Ghetto Boyz might be considered high-art to Koreans and perhaps that is the reason the country has so many English schools.. If that's the case, we ought to be importing teachers from Compton, Houston's Fifth Ward and South Chicago..
Werd! |
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davai!
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Fans of "The Brady Bunch" sensed something was amiss when cousin Oliver came to visit. Likewise, viewers thought it a little odd when a new John Boy returned to Walton's Mountain and nobody noticed. These are classic "jump the shark" moments -- usually Hail Mary passes thrown by TV writers and producers to spike flat-lining Nielsen's.
The expression traces its lineage to Jon Hein's www.jumptheshark.com, a website launched in 1997 to chronicle the downward spiral of television shows. Adopting its moniker from the "Happy Days" episode where Fonzie literally jumps over a shark while on water skis, the site has grown exponentially with each TV season and now boasts more than 2,000 shows in its database of shark sightings.
But it seems that its once-hip namesake phrase -- before employed only by an elite group of TV and Internet junkies -- has been usurped by the mainstream. Ample evidence suggests that the idiom is being circled by a certain sharp-toothed fish with a fear-inducing dorsal fin.
In addition to making cameos in episodes of "Ed" and "That '70s Show," "jump the shark" references have made it into the daily news lexicon, which certainly tolls the knell for any faddy expression. In a recent CNN piece, Jonah Goldberg, editor of National Review Online, noted, "
"Frasier's" final season is also attracting numerous shark references: "Today" host Katie Couric uttered the phrase when interviewing Kelsey Grammer; and a BBC News reporter wrote, "No cast wants to end up performing ludicrous stunts in place of good story lines, what Americans call 'jumping the shark.' "
Time to cue taps, or the theme from "Jaws."
-- Christine N. Ziemba
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Los Angeles Times online 2/22/04[/quote] |
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travelingfool
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Location: Parents' basement
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| This whole issue comes down to Koreans wanting cheap and exploitable labor. They want English teachers to be like 3D workers. Us cantankerous westerners are just too difficult because we actually demand to be treated with some semblance of dignity and respect. When push comes to shove most of us will stand up to and get in the face of the ubiquitous, diabolical hagwon owner Mr. Park. We can't have that now, can we? |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| travelingfool wrote: |
| This whole issue comes down to Koreans wanting cheap and exploitable labor. They want English teachers to be like 3D workers. Us cantankerous westerners are just too difficult because we actually demand to be treated with some semblance of dignity and respect. When push comes to shove most of us will stand up to and get in the face of the ubiquitous, diabolical hagwon owner Mr. Park. We can't have that now, can we? |
Exactly! And it's not just the 3D workers who cower before the Korean bosses; it's also the Korean workers. I'm firmly convinced that's why Korean bosses are so shocked when we Westerners demand they obey the law and the contract. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
Non-westerners might be fine for teaching elementary and even teaching idioms. Idioms are at their heart, just vocabulary. instead of individual words, they're individual phrases that have a special meaning. Its no big deal to find definitions online, with example sentences, etc
What they might not be able to teach is natural usage of them. For example how often do you use them? Some people learn some idioms then start to use them every sentence...I guess its good for practice, but its a bit strange to listen to.
However there are plenty of idioms which are UK and US/CAN specific. With many shared. Canada is pretty much exposed to all US idioms through the media, but it also gets higher british television exposure (more so 20 years ago than now) so it has perhaps a little more exposure to British idioms.
A brit probably wouldn't be any better at explaining an American idiom than an Indian would unless he spent a lot of time watching american TV/Movies/Living there
But he would be better at teaching general idiom usage. |
You are correct that it's hard for non-native speakers to teach various North American expressions. I mean if Korean co-teachers asked them about certain things, they often won't be able to answer, and that wouldn't sit well with the Korean co-teachers, in my opinion. Sometimes, it's even a bit hard for native speakers to explain certain things to their Korean co-teachers, because we don't think about our language so much, and I am, certain, it would generally be harder for non-native speakers to do.
In certain areas, the non-native speakers would be very good when it comes to things like grammar, but the Korean teachers teach grammar.
We are here, generally, as speaking and listening teachers, and non-natives would fall short. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| poet13 wrote: |
bogey..."importing Hindi or Malay of Filipino/a teachers to teach English is like importing Koreans from China to Korea to teach Korean (actually worse)
they'd be ok for very low level students, but for any REAL levels of proficiency, you would need a highly educated English speaker from those countries, and they DO exist ,but in small numbers and are likely working in a good job back in their home countries.
They could never explain English idioms and the entire concept of "making a global individual" which the Korean govt is so in love with would fall flat on its face.
btw this clown merely sounds like a PR hack for his private institute."
Wow. I guess your only experience with hindi, malay or Filipino is...what? Dating a 3-D worker. I don't know about malaysia, and some Indian accents are kind of funky, but if you go to Manila and walk around a mall, the english you hear there blows away the gutter english you hear in a mall in the US. There are plenty of high level english speakers there....India too.
Never explain English idioms? Shoot, how many people here know what "jump the shark" means? Or, "more front the Brighton"? or, "make bets in a burning house?" We western folk don't have the monopoly on either understanding English, or the ability to make "Global Individuals." |
If about 11% of the people in India speak English, that's about 100 mllion people or so. In many cases, those who speak very good English in India and speak it in a sophisticated manner would usually have good jobs in India or if they speak good English and want to come to Korea, they would be coming for jobs in the high-tech industry, not for teaching English. Getting a teacher who speaks sophisticated English and from India to teach in Korea might not be as easy as that former professor thinks.
As far as the Phillipines, many do speak English well-enough to have a conversation about many different subjects with native speakers.
However, less than half of the Phillipine population speak English.
Those who speak it very well and in a sophisticated manner probably have good jobs in the Phillipines. It depends on how sophisticated you want your teachers to sound. It's not, obviously, as hard to find an American or Canadian graduate who can speak his language in a sophisticated manner.
I think that in the country side, it's hard to get Western teachers to go out there. More Phillipinos are going there. However, there is a lot of resistance to those teachers out of racial reasons. Some Koreans object to non-Western teachers, and they, often, consider it an insult to be taught by Phillipinos.
I am sure you can find many candidates in the Phillipines who majored in English and taught Koreans in the Phillipines and went to good schools who could do a decent job. I more than welcome them to come here.
They could be rather helpful in making sure there is less of a shortage of English teachers. Also, why not also get teachers from the Netherlands?
A much higher percentage of Dutch people speak English, and your average Dutch person can understand American movies and expressions rather well.
I am afraid many people from the Phillipines and India would be exploited worse than us. If the government is willing to make sure
they are treated well and get good candidates, then I'd support bring many of them in. I do care about the level of English in Korea as an English teacher.
Of course, it would help if Korea made the lives of Westerners easier, followed the contracts, and gave them more of an incentive to come here instead of trying to disparage them. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
Are you joking? You saw graffiti on a bathroom wall, spent two hours thinking about it, then got a guy to go into the bathroom with you to translate........okay...... |
Why is it strange that I'd try to figure out a term in another language that I didn't understand? That's fine if you lack curiosity but it makes you sound like a meat head to cast aspersions on those that do.
As for the bathroom, it took about three seconds. I wrote it down and showed it to somebody but they thought i wrote it wrong, because it was slang, so he wanted to see it. No handjobs, no glory holes, no docking. Sorry to dissapoint you I'm sure you had a nice little fantasy worked up in your head for later.
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nateium
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 4:59 am Post subject: Re: Ignorance about native speaker teachers from another big |
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| Smee wrote: |
``Also, we have to invite qualified English teachers from India, Malaysia and the Philippines as English is not a language only for Americans and British people.''
``Above all, we should produce qualified teachers who can replace native English speakers. I can assure you our school will produce such teachers,'' he added. |
http://koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/04/117_43673.html[/quote]
Not going to happen for a long time...for whatever cultural or social reasons, Koreans pretty much suck at speaking English. From what I've seen, Koreans are nowhere near ready to do what most native speakers do in the classroom. The temptation for them to speak Korean with the students most of the class time is too strong; they just don't benefit.
Also, who's to say Indians, Malaysians, and Philippinos are less likely to "cause trouble." Where is the data that native ESL instructors are statistically more likely to "cause trouble" than Korean teachers? He shows some faulty reasoning here and just reinforces stereotypes. |
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