Korean Job Discussion Forums

[lush72]

The normal disclaimers apply- these are my thoughts, experiences, and observations. They reflect my, and only my, views.
EDIT- I had another topic planned for today but the story has not played out yet, so I respectfully submit this in its place.

How many hours do you work?

That�s a loaded question isn�t it? Is it how many hours you are physically at your workplace? Or is it how many hours you are actively engaged in performing your job functions? Or is a mix of those two, or something entirely different? So, just how many hours do you work? What do you say when you are asked this?

I used to think that the time I spent at work were my working hours. I don�t think that way anymore. Later I thought that the hours I spent actually �working� were my working hours. I don�t think that way anymore either. Why?

Lets start with a typical day shall we? I arrive at work sometime between 7:30am and 8:30 am. I am sometimes the first person (in my team) in, but often I am not. Our hours state that work starts at 9 am sharp. Have I ever walked in at 8:55? Yes, ONCE. Once was all it took. It has never been communicated to me, either verbally or nonverbally, that we are expected to be here early. It�s just the guilty feeling you get when you�re the last team member to show up, it�s so ridiculously uncomfortable. Sort of like �the last duck through the gate� feeling. I don�t want to experience it, so I arrive early.

So now I am at least a half hour early. What is there to do? Well the usual, hang up your coat, get coffee, surf the net. Then at 9 sharp we have a team meeting. These meetings are really a bag of mixed nuts (much like my coworkers!). Sometimes they are ridiculously trivial, rehashing department goals, soliciting us for opinions that won�t ever see the light of day, assigning new nonsense �roles� which are meaningless, and just all manner of time killing, banal things. Other times it�s the opposite, time to break out the note pad and start taking notes! Projects starting, changing direction, terminating. Who is going to be assigned to be a new hires �buddy�, responsible (and I really mean RESPONSIBLE) for showing them the ropes. Mandatory meeting schedules and so forth and so on, you get the idea.

The point here is that after this meeting we know EXACTLY what needs to be accomplished for that day and, often, for that whole week. Sometimes the workload is really light. How light? Light, as in there is quite literally only 2 hours of real work to do. These days are a laugh riot at the office. Its almost comical if it weren�t for the colossal waste of time and energy. After the team meeting everyone gets right to work, its expected. But on light days you�re often done before lunch (today is a light day for me, in case you couldn�t tell).

After lunch the �theater� I work in really comes to life! My coworkers (the other actors) fall into their well-rehearsed roles. Incredibly, the �play� seldom changes. There are the MSN Messenger bandits. These people have slyly installed MSN Plus and purposely made the MSN client �transparent�. They open any word processing program and then MSN Messenger on top of it. Because MSN is now transparent its extremely difficult for a roving boss to see exactly what they are up to. They type furiously. The illusion of work is maintained. Next we have the �Meeting in the ladies room� crowd. Surprisingly, the ladies room is an actual black hole where I work. No one in management expects to see these ladies after they have crossed the event horizon. Next you have the jellyfish. I am sometimes guilty of that. These people �float� like a jellyfish in the oceans current, from office to office. Next we have the �power walkers�. These people grab some papers and start off with a determined stride and their heads low. They are not going anywhere but, boy, do they look busy! Most desk cowboys surf the job boards or send resumes during this time. Ironically, they are the only ones who are truly �free� during this part of the play. They have no role. Perhaps they are the audience? The last category of people is the no-hopers. They just sit at their desk, zombified, aimlessly reading old reports or reviewing long finished work.

Now lets go back to the concept of �working hours�. If you�re done at lunch, and your �official� (hahaha!) quitting time is 6:30pm (hahaha!) you now have quite a few hours to kill. In reality, you generally don�t leave work till the boss does (this IS changing though) here which means that you might be �trapped� here till 7 or 8 pm. Are all of these hours working hours? I mean, you�re not free to go, but you aren�t doing anything even remotely productive at all. You are �at work� but you�re not �working�. What�s worse is that frequently, as the boss is leaving, he will ask everyone out for drinks. Some of us married people beg off but, for the single people, this can be the beginning of even more �working hours� as they are CLEARLY expected to participate. Additionally, if you are going to a client dinner, or other �after hours� mandatory work related social event, are these working hours as well?

So what does this all translate for me? I am physically present at my worksite for a minimum of 9 hours a day, Monday through Friday. That�s 45 hours on a normal week. On a �heavy� week I might be there for 50+ hours. Are all these spent working? No, absolutely not. So what, exactly, do I say when asked, �What are your hours�? I once stated the official hours, but that wasn�t really true. Then I said, �Well it depends on the workload� but that wasn�t exactly true either. So now I just say that my working hours are whatever I make them. Not all time spent at work, is work.

What do you think?

[crazylemongirl]

thanks lush, another informative article.

[tsgarp]

Christ man, didn't you ever have an office job back home? Your story is nothing new to anyone whoever had a job other than saying paper or plastic? It's just blather blather blather.

[lush72]

[kangnamdragon]

I consider my working hours to be anytime I am not free to be away from the office or my coworkers. If I have to go to an office dinner, I consider those working hours. Of course, it does not really matter because I am on salary.

Here I don't think people have to wait for the boss anymore. I just go home when I am finished at 5 which is two hours earlier than when everyone else is finished. I think they don't wait for the boss. I don't feel guilty about leaving before everyone else. I just say that is my culture. I do try to avoid logging on to MSN Messenger at home until all my coworkers have left, so they don't think I am resting at home when they are still working.

Now my best friend is Korean. Sometimes he has to "work" until 2 am drinking. We both consider this to be working hours because he would rather be with his girlfriend or family (I am included in family). And I am sure the girlfriend, along with most Korean wives would consider office "dinners" to be working hours because those times are away from the family.

When there is not a lot of work to do, it is interesting to see how often the men take "smoke" breaks. I don't smoke, so I guess I should just walk around more and say that is my "smoke break."

But as stated before, it does not really matter. Offically there is "overtime", but nobody gets paid "overtime."

[dutchman]

[Pyongshin Sangja]

Actually, I never had an office job and I never bagged groceries. I killed people for the mob. Lush's posts are quite informative. Thank you. Actually makes me glad I don't work in an office. I bet his paychecks could make me glad to work just about anywhere, though. Hmmm. Chaebol on the horizon for me? Hard to say. Long as I stay out of jail....

[kangnamdragon]

Here is a trick I see at the office. Come early, then leave again. Put your stuff on your desk and turn on your computer. Everyone sees you are there. Then go get some coffee. In the evenings, workers go to the gym then dinner, but they are "still at work," not leaving until the boss does.

[steroidmaximus]

tsgarp wrote:

[tsgarp]

I worked for an investment banker in America. We were supposed to be at work by 8:45 but I don't know anyone who showed up after 8:30 and most of us got there by 8. Those who didn't were duly noted by those who did. Most of us stayed until 5:30 or 6 even though we were technically free to leave by 5. We stayed because we didn't want the old man to think we were slacking. Those who kept the "official" hours got the crappiest clients and the worst desks/offices. Most of my day was spent tracking my own stocks and keeping up inane banter with my co-workers because that is what the large part of office work is. It's killing time while trying to look busy. When we had big IPO's to prepare I worked my ass off 12 hours a day and into the weekend but that was like 20% of the time. The rest of the time you're just taking orders and schmoozing clients. After all, they weren't paying me for my time, they were paying me for what I know.
There were always a couple of guys who seemed doomed to get fired but neverdid. They just got shuffled from department to department being assigned crap work like doing the graphics for the company newsletter. Most of these guys quit after a while.
It's almost exactly like my job here. When I have a due diligence to perform on a new investor or I have to prepare the annual business plan i am swamped. Most of the time I track my stocks and work on my short game. I have been at times required to put in 2 weeks of near 13 hour days but again, it's not the hours I work, it's the end product that I get paid for so if I can do it in 2 hours, then so be it.
Working here is not that different. The differences that do exist are ones of degree and not kind but given the nature of any office job, even those differences are not that big. Business is business. Every company cultivates its own culture but in the end corporate practices around the world are pretty standard especially in big companies.
Lush wants us to believe he is so "special' and his insight is so unique. Look at me look at me he begs like a precocious child. Truth is, the life of a cubicle dweller really is Dilbert.
I looking forward to the day when I can start to cash in my stock options and do something really different. If any of you start up a ddeokbokki stand or go to work for the Pyongyang circus then that would make for some interesting reading. Otherwise don't get too upset when your little job diaries are called the platitudes that they are.

[lush72]

Yawn....

EDIT- fishboy- feel free not to read any of my posts, no one is forcing you to click on my threads. How old are you anyway Bevis?

[kangnamdragon]

I like reading these post....reminds me a little of what my office is like, but also that some offices can be worse....

[tsgarp]

Hey, you're the one who asked for opinions on this. If I recall, you said something to the effect of you wouldn't continue these work threads if people found them lame. You don't want people's opinions, then don't ask. If you do ask, expect some people to disagree with you. You're like a girl who asks if she looks fat in her new outfit fully wnating everyone to lie and tell her no.
How old am I? Ooohh, such blistering repartee. It's no wonder your work posts are so weak.
Any of you out there work in a karaoke? I know an American guy in Pusan who worked in one for ajummas. See, that would make for some interesting posts. Your stuff is basically about how you're your company's version of Asok. See, you don't even rate a Dilbert.

[Gord]

I found the previous postings in the series a curious window into the world of corporate Korea. But this posting was a poorly written, overly wordy , unguided rant. That part wasn't so bad, but Lush72, when you went into defensive insult mode because someone said what everyone was thinking, that only paints you as whining about your job. Your environment isn't as special as you thought it was, so be it.

Next time, less whining, less rambling, and more information as the underlying facts are curious (at least to me). And when someone critisizes your postings, respond with more information and clarifications, not insults.

[kangnamdragon]