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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:02 am Post subject: If there was ever a reason to support atheism, this is it |
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Thousands beaten, raped in Irish reform schools
DUBLIN � A fiercely debated, nine-year investigation into Ireland's Roman Catholic-run institutions says priests and nuns terrorized thousands of boys and girls in workhouse-style schools for decades � and government inspectors failed to stop the chronic beatings, rapes and humiliation.
High Court Justice Sean Ryan on Wednesday unveiled the 2,600-page final report of Ireland's Commission to Inquire Into Child Abuse, which is based on testimony from thousands of former students and officials from more than 250 church-run institutions.
More than 30,000 children deemed to be petty thieves, truants or from dysfunctional families � a category that often included unmarried mothers � were sent to Ireland's austere network of industrial schools, reformatories, orphanages and hostels from the 1930s until the last church-run facilities shut in the 1990s.
The report found that molestation and rape were "endemic" in boys' facilities, chiefly run by the Christian Brothers order, and supervisors pursued policies that increased the danger. Girls supervised by orders of nuns, chiefly the Sisters of Mercy, suffered much less sexual abuse but frequent assaults and humiliation designed to make them feel worthless.
"In some schools a high level of ritualized beating was routine. ... Girls were struck with implements designed to maximize pain and were struck on all parts of the body," the report said. "Personal and family denigration was widespread."
Victims of the system have long demanded that the truth of their experiences be documented and made public, so that children in Ireland never endure such suffering again.
[url]
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/ap_on_re_eu/eu_ireland_catholic_abuse[/url]
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say athiesm is the solution to this horrific story, but certainly responsible government oversight was called for. Just letting the market sort things out didn't work too well in that situation. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| The market? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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I think its a parody post on Ya-Ta's part. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, maybe a little parody, but are you two saying it's inappropriate to consider the Catholic Church a business that acted in its own interests and not the interests of its charges? |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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The Taliban girl-stoners, the Wahhabi rape victim-lashers, the Irish boy-rapers......another great day for atheism as the religion tragedy continues.
But remember kids: only a belief in God can produce a moral human being |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| The Taliban girl-stoners, the Wahhabi rape victim-lashers, the Irish boy-rapers......another great day for atheism as the religion tragedy continues. |
The rape of Irish boys is a great day for atheism? |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Well, maybe a little parody, but are you two saying it's inappropriate to consider the Catholic Church a business that acted in its own interests and not the interests of its charges? |
Ya-ta, I've never met a libertarian so nutty that he would want "the market" to deal with child rape. |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: If there was ever a reason to support atheism, this is i |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| Quote: |
Thousands beaten, raped in Irish reform schools
DUBLIN � A fiercely debated, nine-year investigation into Ireland's Roman Catholic-run institutions says priests and nuns terrorized thousands of boys and girls in workhouse-style schools for decades � and government inspectors failed to stop the chronic beatings, rapes and humiliation.
High Court Justice Sean Ryan on Wednesday unveiled the 2,600-page final report of Ireland's Commission to Inquire Into Child Abuse, which is based on testimony from thousands of former students and officials from more than 250 church-run institutions.
More than 30,000 children deemed to be petty thieves, truants or from dysfunctional families � a category that often included unmarried mothers � were sent to Ireland's austere network of industrial schools, reformatories, orphanages and hostels from the 1930s until the last church-run facilities shut in the 1990s.
The report found that molestation and rape were "endemic" in boys' facilities, chiefly run by the Christian Brothers order, and supervisors pursued policies that increased the danger. Girls supervised by orders of nuns, chiefly the Sisters of Mercy, suffered much less sexual abuse but frequent assaults and humiliation designed to make them feel worthless.
"In some schools a high level of ritualized beating was routine. ... Girls were struck with implements designed to maximize pain and were struck on all parts of the body," the report said. "Personal and family denigration was widespread."
Victims of the system have long demanded that the truth of their experiences be documented and made public, so that children in Ireland never endure such suffering again.
[url]
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/ap_on_re_eu/eu_ireland_catholic_abuse[/url]
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I think it's more of a reason to support the separation of church and state myself. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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double post
Last edited by Big_Bird on Wed May 20, 2009 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I agree. I have no problem with people practicing their religions in private (so long as it doesn't involve harm to others) but greatly object to organised religion being allowed to run public institutions, especially those involving services to children (who are in no position to consent to being subject to any religion).
But these abusers aren't abusing due to their theism, they abuse because of their own perverted impulses, impulses that no amount of theism or atheism alike will curb. There are many secular run institutions in the past (and in the present) in which abusers have run amok unhindered.
In Ireland these people were attracted to the Church, because it had enormous authority over the populace, and so they could do their thing unchallanged. In China certain abusers no doubt thrive due to their status in the Communist party, and in other places they thrive because they live in poor countries where a little wealth can give you extraordinary power over other people (and their children).
You've got to address the abuse itself (forcing all institutions to be more transparent - providing children with avenues to report the abuse to third parties), and not claim that removing religion from the equation will change very much. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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It is my inclination, as an atheist, to believe that the problem starts with religion itself. Big Bird you're right to note that these people were attracted to these institutions because of the enormous power they had over the populace; if the religion(s) didn't exist, then neither would the institutions.
But I'm willing to let others disagree with me and/or live with the viewpoints that the problem is organized religion and/or the failure to separate church and state. Its worth noting, though, that a lot of religions make internal organization a necessary feature of their belief system. There's no such thing as a Catholic who doesn't go to church regularly, submit to the sacraments or believe the Pope is infallible, at least according to the Catholic church hierarchy.
| Big Bird wrote: |
| I have no problem with people practicing their religions in private (so long as it doesn't involve harm to others) but greatly object to organised religion being allowed to run public institutions, especially those involving services to children (who are in no position to consent to being subject to any religion). |
Give the lady a dozen roses.  |
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samcheokguy
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Location: Samcheok G-do
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| -Isn't this simply another proof that power unchecked is power out of control. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 12:49 am Post subject: |
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What about all the Catholic orphanages where there was no abuse and all the orphans from them who were not abused? What about all the Catholic children's homes, hospitals, schools, homeless shelters, etc., in the world?
There are 8,246 Catholic Orphanages and 11,911 Catholic Children�s Homes in the world (according to this source). The largest Catholic hospital in the world, with 1200 beds, just opened on May 1st in Seoul. I don't see atheists lining up to take up the slack if they were to close. How many atheists run leper colonies? Shouldn't this all be figured into the equation?
I have seen no evidence that the rate of abuse in Catholic institutions is any greater than in any other sector of society. Because perhaps 0.1% are problematic, you want to throw out the other 99.9%? |
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