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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
What an absolute *beep*. I've never seen him interviewed before. Gross. On so many levels. |
That is rich coming from someone who thinks that Hizzbollah's war is justified. |
As usual, you've got that back to front. I am "someone who thinks that Israel's war on Lebanon* cannot be justified" (at least not on any moral/ethical grounds).
* all of them - any one of them you care to choose - there've been a few... |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
What an absolute *beep*. I've never seen him interviewed before. Gross. On so many levels. |
That is rich coming from someone who thinks that Hizzbollah's war is justified. |
As usual, you've got that back to front. I am "someone who thinks that Israel's war on Lebanon* cannot be justified" (at least not on any moral/ethical grounds).
* all of them - any one of them you care to choose - there've been a few... |
If Hizzbollah isn't an organziation that is out to destroy Israel then Isreal's war might not be justified, however if Hizzbollah is an organziation out to destroy Israel then any holding back by Israel means they are just waiting around for the next attack which will inevitably occur. Of course it was Hizzbollah who started the last war.
But you don't think that Hizzbollah is a terror group even though they attack outside of Lebanon and Israel, sell drugs and copy US money.
Now even Egypt says Hizbollah is setting up terror cells in Egypt.
Anyway this video says it all about how things are happening in that part of the world.
Incubators vs. WMDs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJzXxJBDhK0 |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
What an absolute *beep*. I've never seen him interviewed before. Gross. On so many levels. |
That is rich coming from someone who thinks that Hizzbollah's war is justified. |
As usual, you've got that back to front. I am "someone who thinks that Israel's war on Lebanon* cannot be justified" (at least not on any moral/ethical grounds).
* all of them - any one of them you care to choose - there've been a few... |
If Hizzbollah isn't an organziation that is out to destroy Israel then Isreal's war might not be justified, however if Hizzbollah is an organziation out to destroy Israel then any holding back by Israel means they are just waiting around for the next attack which will inevitably occur. Of course it was Hizzbollah who started the last war.
But you don't think that Hizzbollah is a terror group even though they attack outside of Lebanon and Israel, sell drugs and copy US money.
Now even Egypt says Hizbollah is setting up terror cells in Egypt.
Anyway this video says it all about how things are happening in that part of the world.
Incubators vs. WMDs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJzXxJBDhK0 |
Boo hoo hoo. Hezbollah is Israel's bastard child. If Israel hadn't carried out such disgraceful wars and and such a horrendous occupation of the Lebanese Shiite, there would be no Hezbollah.
You love to research Joo. Go and do some research on the plight of the Shia populace during Israel's twenty-two year occupation of South Lebanon - yeah yeah, you're going to go on about the Christan SLA I know I know - but they were Israel's proxies. Go and learn something about how the population were brutalised and terrorised, and then try to get your head around how a group like Hezbollah might have been conceived in such conditions. Put yourself in someone's shoes - someone not white or Christian or English speaking, but human all the same - and think how you might feel/react.
Other secular resistance groups arose, but they just didnt' have the stomach for the kind of ruthless rebellion that Hezbollah were able to pull off. If I were a Lebanese Shia, I would consider them national heros. Israel's continued aggression toward Lebanon (don't give me the old line about them withdrawing peacefully in 2000, because they continued to violate the ceasefire almost every day thereafter terrorising and provoking) only helps maintain the existance of Hezbollah. Personally, I prefer politics to remain in the secular domain, so I'd be quite happy to see the quiet demise of Hezbollah, but do I have any sympathy with the IDF when they war with Hezbollah? No. They are reaping what they sowed. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 5:48 am Post subject: |
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Boo hoo hoo. Hezbollah is Israel's bastard child. If Israel hadn't carried out such disgraceful wars and and such a horrendous occupation of the Lebanese Shiite, there would be no Hezbollah. |
Perhaps but Israel would not have gone to war if they had not been attacked from Lebanon.
| Quote: |
You love to research Joo. Go and do some research on the plight of the Shia populace during Israel's twenty-two year occupation of South Lebanon - yeah yeah, you're going to go on about the Christan SLA I know I know - but they were Israel's proxies. Go and learn something about how the population were brutalised and terrorised, and then try to get your head around how a group like Hezbollah might have been conceived in such conditions. Put yourself in someone's shoes - someone not white or Christian or English speaking, but human all the same - and think how you might feel/react. |
You are probably right but Israel would have gotten out right away if there weren't attacks launched from Lebanon.
| Quote: |
Other secular resistance groups arose, but they just didnt' have the stomach for the kind of ruthless rebellion that Hezbollah were able to pull off. If I were a Lebanese Shia, I would consider them national heros. Israel's continued aggression toward Lebanon (don't give me the old line about them withdrawing peacefully in 2000, because they continued to violate the ceasefire almost every day thereafter terrorising and provoking) only helps maintain the existance of Hezbollah. Personally, I prefer politics to remain in the secular domain, so I'd be quite happy to see the quiet demise of Hezbollah, but do I have any sympathy with the IDF when they war with Hezbollah? No. They are reaping what they sowed. |
Again Israel would have gotten out in 1982 except the other side would not say they would not attack.that is kind of the core problem in the mideast. Of course Hizzbollah not only violates the cease fire but they arm Israel's enemies , and not only Israel's enemies either.
As for sympathy for the IDF they don't need it but there is one other fact here Hizzbollah would last about 10 days in a war against Assad or Saddam Hussein or any other mideast regime.
And the national heros Hizzbollah killed or chased out the few Lebanese Jews that were left. Which illustrates kind of another problem in the mideast and another problem with a radical left that consitantly apologizes for rascism and facism by Israel's enemies.
I guess Hizzbollah and others who agree with them ought to
a) accept liberal tolerant democracy that protects and doesn't discriminate against minority groups . Then they would have a moral right to reject Israel,This is a great option isn't it? Ali Khamani must leave power.
OR
b) accept Israel
c) or accept whatever Israel can hit them with. In this case they would deserve it.
Anyone of the options is ok. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
Boo hoo hoo. Hezbollah is Israel's bastard child. If Israel hadn't carried out such disgraceful wars and and such a horrendous occupation of the Lebanese Shiite, there would be no Hezbollah. |
Perhaps but Israel would not have gone to war if they had not been attacked from Lebanon.
| Quote: |
You love to research Joo. Go and do some research on the plight of the Shia populace during Israel's twenty-two year occupation of South Lebanon - yeah yeah, you're going to go on about the Christan SLA I know I know - but they were Israel's proxies. Go and learn something about how the population were brutalised and terrorised, and then try to get your head around how a group like Hezbollah might have been conceived in such conditions. Put yourself in someone's shoes - someone not white or Christian or English speaking, but human all the same - and think how you might feel/react. |
You are probably right but Israel would have gotten out right away if there weren't attacks launched from Lebanon.
| Quote: |
Other secular resistance groups arose, but they just didnt' have the stomach for the kind of ruthless rebellion that Hezbollah were able to pull off. If I were a Lebanese Shia, I would consider them national heros. Israel's continued aggression toward Lebanon (don't give me the old line about them withdrawing peacefully in 2000, because they continued to violate the ceasefire almost every day thereafter terrorising and provoking) only helps maintain the existance of Hezbollah. Personally, I prefer politics to remain in the secular domain, so I'd be quite happy to see the quiet demise of Hezbollah, but do I have any sympathy with the IDF when they war with Hezbollah? No. They are reaping what they sowed. |
Again Israel would have gotten out in 1982 except the other side would not say they would not attack.that is kind of the core problem in the mideast. Of course Hizzbollah not only violates the cease fire but they arm Israel's enemies , and not only Israel's enemies either.
As for sympathy for the IDF they don't need it but there is one other fact here Hizzbollah would last about 10 days in a war against Assad or Saddam Hussein or any other mideast regime.
And the national heros Hizzbollah killed or chased out the few Lebanese Jews that were left. Which illustrates kind of another problem in the mideast and another problem with a radical left that consitantly apologizes for rascism and facism by Israel's enemies.
I guess Hizzbollah and others who agree with them ought to
a) accept liberal tolerant democracy that protects and doesn't discriminate against minority groups . Then they would have a moral right to reject Israel,This is a great option isn't it? Ali Khamani must leave power.
OR
b) accept Israel
c) or accept whatever Israel can hit them with. In this case they would deserve it.
Anyone of the options is ok. |
Sharon and Begin went into Lebanon in 1982, because they had their sights on a Greater Israel. The war was publically heralded in Israel at that time as a war to keep the West Bank. That war was about expansionism, nothing less. Furthermore, by 1982 Arafat had long decided that violent methods were futile, and he was attempting to take non-violent approaches. Begin and Sharon found this very frustrating. They wanted the PLO to remain terrorists. You don't have to negotiate with terrorists. They therefore provoked and provoked, for a full 9 months, doing stuff like flying sorties over Lebanon bombing fishing boats and the like. Yet the PLO did not respond. They wanted to maintain the ceasefire. In the end, Israel went into Lebanon anyway, publically giving the reason that it was a response to the attempted assination of an Israeli diplomat in London. The fact that the PLO was not responsible for that was apparantly not material. But technical reason (for legality) they gave was that an IDF jeep had driven over a mine, which exploded, and therefore that this was somehow a violation of the ceasefire. How that could be considered a violation of a ceasefire beats me, but there you go. They were desperate to go into Lebanon and any excuse would do. The 2006 war was also planned long in advance, with Israel waiting for a pretext to launch it. None of these wars were to fight off existential threats.
Maybe it's Israel that needs to accept her neighbours and their rights to exist? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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|
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
Boo hoo hoo. Hezbollah is Israel's bastard child. If Israel hadn't carried out such disgraceful wars and and such a horrendous occupation of the Lebanese Shiite, there would be no Hezbollah. |
Perhaps but Israel would not have gone to war if they had not been attacked from Lebanon.
| Quote: |
You love to research Joo. Go and do some research on the plight of the Shia populace during Israel's twenty-two year occupation of South Lebanon - yeah yeah, you're going to go on about the Christan SLA I know I know - but they were Israel's proxies. Go and learn something about how the population were brutalised and terrorised, and then try to get your head around how a group like Hezbollah might have been conceived in such conditions. Put yourself in someone's shoes - someone not white or Christian or English speaking, but human all the same - and think how you might feel/react. |
You are probably right but Israel would have gotten out right away if there weren't attacks launched from Lebanon.
| Quote: |
Other secular resistance groups arose, but they just didnt' have the stomach for the kind of ruthless rebellion that Hezbollah were able to pull off. If I were a Lebanese Shia, I would consider them national heros. Israel's continued aggression toward Lebanon (don't give me the old line about them withdrawing peacefully in 2000, because they continued to violate the ceasefire almost every day thereafter terrorising and provoking) only helps maintain the existance of Hezbollah. Personally, I prefer politics to remain in the secular domain, so I'd be quite happy to see the quiet demise of Hezbollah, but do I have any sympathy with the IDF when they war with Hezbollah? No. They are reaping what they sowed. |
Again Israel would have gotten out in 1982 except the other side would not say they would not attack.that is kind of the core problem in the mideast. Of course Hizzbollah not only violates the cease fire but they arm Israel's enemies , and not only Israel's enemies either.
As for sympathy for the IDF they don't need it but there is one other fact here Hizzbollah would last about 10 days in a war against Assad or Saddam Hussein or any other mideast regime.
And the national heros Hizzbollah killed or chased out the few Lebanese Jews that were left. Which illustrates kind of another problem in the mideast and another problem with a radical left that consitantly apologizes for rascism and facism by Israel's enemies.
I guess Hizzbollah and others who agree with them ought to
a) accept liberal tolerant democracy that protects and doesn't discriminate against minority groups . Then they would have a moral right to reject Israel,This is a great option isn't it? Ali Khamani must leave power.
OR
b) accept Israel
c) or accept whatever Israel can hit them with. In this case they would deserve it.
Anyone of the options is ok. |
Sharon and Begin went into Lebanon in 1982, because they had their sights on a Greater Israel. The war was publically heralded in Israel at that time as a war to keep the West Bank. That war was about expansionism, nothing less. Furthermore, by 1982 Arafat had long decided that violent methods were futile, and he was attempting to take non-violent approaches. Begin and Sharon found this very frustrating. They wanted the PLO to remain terrorists. You don't have to negotiate with terrorists. They therefore provoked and provoked, for a full 9 months, doing stuff like flying sorties over Lebanon bombing fishing boats and the like. Yet the PLO did not respond. They wanted to maintain the ceasefire. In the end, Israel went into Lebanon anyway, publically giving the reason that it was a response to the attempted assination of an Israeli diplomat in London. The fact that the PLO was not responsible for that was apparantly not material. But technical reason (for legality) they gave was that an IDF jeep had driven over a mine, which exploded, and therefore that this was somehow a violation of the ceasefire. How that could be considered a violation of a ceasefire beats me, but there you go. They were desperate to go into Lebanon and any excuse would do. The 2006 war was also planned long in advance, with Israel waiting for a pretext to launch it. None of these wars were to fight off existential threats.
Maybe it's Israel that needs to accept her neighbours and their rights to exist? |
They went into Israel to conquer Lebanon? Nonsense. Show it . I am calling you on it fightt
They were hit from Lebanon from time to time and wanted to take out their mortal enemy the PLO .
Non violent methods by Arafat? In fact to the end of his life Arafat never even accepted Israel.
In 2006 if Israel wanted to go into Lebanon it would have been to take out Hizzbollah who hunts jews down in other nations. Of course Israel woudl have a plan for them |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| They went into Israel to conquer Lebanon? Nonsense. Show it . I am calling you on it fight |
Learn to read, mate. I said it was heralded as the 'war to keep the West Bank.'
Anyway, I'm not interested in having the sort of circular discussions that are likely to develop out of this. Very unproductive use of time.
Good afternoon to you. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| They went into Israel to conquer Lebanon? Nonsense. Show it . I am calling you on it fight |
Learn to read, mate. I said it was heralded as the 'war to keep the West Bank.'
Anyway, I'm not interested in having the sort of circular discussions that are likely to develop out of this.
Good afternoon to you. |
Ok a war to keep the west bank , I don't think Israel has a right to 99% of the west bank. Then again at that time The PLO was out to destroy Israel. So you had two sides not much interested in compromise. |
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