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IMF crisis
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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 Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| 3MB wrote: |
| The only bad thing about this is that it prevents the law from finding him guilty. He took the coward's way out, but he was a coward so that is not a surprise. |
What you have effectively done is state that it is "good" that he is dead. So everything about it is "good", except one thing, which is "bad"?
I loathe people like you calling people "cowards", saying that someone's death was good, and accusing people of things without any evidence.
Are you a lawyer?
Politician?
Cop?
Judge?
Appointed Commissioner for some commission investigating him?
No, no, no, no, and no.
What is even more cowardly is making accusations about someone with an anonymous on-line moniker without offering any evidence at all.
There are good guys in the world, and bad guys in the world. It is clear as day as to which side of that moral fence you sit on.
And to think you teach children.... |
What a ridiculous response. I get sick every time someone tries to get all self-righteous and closes with the classic "I can't believe you teach children" nonsense. Right, how dare people who teach children think suicide is the coward's way out. How dare teachers of children jump to the absurd conclusion that a man who is under investigation for crimes, killed himself and left a note about all the suffering he has caused, was likely guilty. Give me a break. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:26 am Post subject: |
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mises sarcastically remarked:
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| You are a class act. |
I'm glad you disapprove, although I was being more sarcastic than wishing others ill-will.
That said, I reserve class remarks for people who are entitled to them. Roh is not. He was corrupt and yet tried to get the public to believe he was not. He was an opportunist of the worst rank, using xenophobia and manipulating the youth vote by badmouthing the U.S. rather than having the guts to take his disdain to its logical conclusion by requesting removal of its military (I personally believe we no longer have any obligation to defend the ROK) and generally making a mess of things. I'm sure not going to shed a tear for his wife either, who's just as corrupt.
And I say the same of the likes of the former Japanese Prime Minister, Chen Shuibian, and the Singaporean cabal.
Though not in the same league, I'd say the same of the Burmese junta, the former Khmer Rouge leaders, and of course Our Dear Leader.
They reap what they sow. |
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gangwonbound
Joined: 27 Apr 2009
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| IMF crisis wrote: |
| What a ridiculous response. |
What's ridiculous about it? A guy died, and it's something to celebrate? I'm simply pointing out that in any reasonable democratic society, people should be free from being judged until due process is afforded.
Bush and Cheney would ask the same if they were on the hot seat.
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| I get sick every time someone tries to get all self-righteous and closes with the classic "I can't believe you teach children" nonsense. |
Every time? Wow, do you get sick often? This happens all the time? When people get "self-righteous" they say "I can't believe you teach children" every time? Wow, news to me. And I've been around here for quite awhile.
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| Right, how dare people who teach children think suicide is the coward's way out. |
I'm sorry, I didn't know you were invited to South Korea to teach ethnocentrism or how the West portrays suicide. In fact, in all my years teaching in Asia, I don't ever recall being told to teach kids about suicide at all. Is that part of the new ESL curriculum? What's the new acronym now for ESL? English Suicide Lessons? Give me a break, please.
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| How dare teachers of children jump to the absurd conclusion that a man who is under investigation for crimes |
Key word is, investigation. Don't recall you ever being appointed to the bench of any court. The West also has a concept of "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law." Did you forget that one?
In the company of an aide...
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| and left a note about all the suffering he has caused |
...which was typed, not hand-written.
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| was likely guilty. |
On what grounds? Do you have any evidence to support your accusation, or just throwing it out there with the rest of the recationary mob?
Please, spare me. You were not at the cliff, you nor I did not witness what happened. It's all speculation until the investigation is complete. Even still, acting self-righteous, while accusing someone of being self-righteous, seems a little...
...there's some "H" word that springs to mind. Can't quite remember it.... |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| He was an opportunist of the worst rank, using xenophobia and manipulating the youth vote by badmouthing the U.S. rather than having the guts to take his disdain to its logical conclusion by requesting removal of its military |
Yeah, Roh was sending out dog-whistles to the anti-American mob, whose agenda he had no intention of persuing once in office. It was cynical, but he was banking that the US would base its decision about the troop presence on realpolitik considerations, not on what outraged Americans say on Dave's ESL Cafe. And, lo and behold, he was right.
So, he got the best of both worlds. He Yank-bashed his way into office, AND still managed to keep the US troops here. It might not fit anyone's ideal of virtuous politics, but it's pretty much the way politics is practiced the world over, inlcuding the USA.
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| (I personally believe we no longer have any obligation to defend the ROK) |
Well, I can't say that I ever thought the USFK troops was here out of some deep sense of kantian obligation. I assumed they were here because the planners in Washinton thought they advanced the interests of the USA. Maybe the days when US interests were advanced by a Korean troop presence are coming to an end, but I gotta say, I've been hearing that from the embittered American expat crowd since at least the 2002 Ono And The Schoolgirls Hatefest. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Coward's way out? Perhaps. As GWOW noted, I think that is a bit western-centric in thinking there.
Corrupt? Looks that way.
That being said, I think he did more to help democracy and people than most of us on this board have done. Not as President, but what he did prior to holding office. And while I thought some of his policies were wrong, and that he was opportunistic, what politician doesn't fit under that billing?
I still think the man warrants respect. How many past or current leaders of an OECD country are self-educated? And not many of them were human rights advocates either.
Just more proof that power corrupts. |
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enchoo
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Location: Heading to a reality show near you
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 9:41 am Post subject: Korean politicians are no less corrupt than other politician |
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Excuse me but I do not find Korean or Asian politicians no less corrupt than those from other countries including Canada and the US......
I do think that the current president Lee Myung Bak could be behind the movement to stain Roh's career since Lee is the direct and complete opposite of Roh.
Lee is the former CEO of Hyundai, part of the elite highly educated class, and self proclaimed "sent from God" christian while Roh was more humble, self educated, labor movement/lower class workers community organizer leader. It was sad that the story of Roh Moo Hyun ends like this and my family will miss him. |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| poor guy's family |
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enchoo
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Location: Heading to a reality show near you
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 9:57 am Post subject: postfundie who the hell are you??? |
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| who are you? |
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gangwonbound
Joined: 27 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| I still think my ad for NFLD was funny and un-intentional |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| gangwonbound wrote: |
| I still think my ad for NFLD was funny and un-intentional |
Yes, it was, in a dark sort of way. Thanks for reminding us of it, since I missed it the first time I scanned your post. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Korean politicians are no less corrupt than other politi |
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| enchoo wrote: |
| Excuse me but I do not find Korean or Asian politicians no less corrupt than those from other countries |
Yeah, I agree. 2 years ago I wouldn't have. |
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IMF crisis
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| IMF crisis wrote: |
| What a ridiculous response. |
What's ridiculous about it?
Everything
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| I get sick every time someone tries to get all self-righteous and closes with the classic "I can't believe you teach children" nonsense. |
Every time? Wow, do you get sick often? This happens all the time? When people get "self-righteous" they say "I can't believe you teach children" every time? Wow, news to me. And I've been around here for quite awhile.
I didn't say it happens all the time, I said it annoys me every time it does happen. It often happens when someone is trying to assert that another poster has poor reading skills, grammar skills, reasoning skills etc. For example, I could say right here, "I said it annoys me every time it happens, not that it happens every time. Your reading skills are poor. I can't believe you teach English."
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| Right, how dare people who teach children think suicide is the coward's way out. |
I'm sorry, I didn't know you were invited to South Korea to teach ethnocentrism or how the West portrays suicide. In fact, in all my years teaching in Asia, I don't ever recall being told to teach kids about suicide at all. Is that part of the new ESL curriculum? What's the new acronym now for ESL? English Suicide Lessons? Give me a break, please.
How do you jump to the conclusion that because a person teaches English here and states on Dave's that he thinks suicide is cowardly, that he therefore teaches his English students that suicide is cowardly? Seriously dude, what logic is that? And to think you teach children...
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| How dare teachers of children jump to the absurd conclusion that a man who is under investigation for crimes |
Key word is, investigation. Don't recall you ever being appointed to the bench of any court. The West also has a concept of "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law." Did you forget that one?
Wait, now we're supposed use our Western way of thinking? Anyway, who cares? As you say, we are not judges and that means our opinions about why he committed suicide have no effect on ROh or his family. But people are bound to have opinions about this and I believe people are free to express those opinions.
In the company of an aide...
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| and left a note about all the suffering he has caused |
...which was typed, not hand-written.
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| was likely guilty. |
On what grounds? Do you have any evidence to support your accusation, or just throwing it out there with the rest of the recationary mob?
"likely guilty" is not much of an accusation, it's more of a connecting of the dots. This is the conclusion many people will reach. You may disagree with that conclusion, and that's fine. But to imply that somehow anyone who comes to the conclusion that the guy was likely guilty and killed himself must therefore be a bad teacher is absurd.
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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GWW reprimanded:
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| Please, spare me. You were not at the cliff, you nor I did not witness what happened. It's all speculation until the investigation is complete. |
You're right. We'll probably find out that former Japanese PM Shinzo Abe pushed him. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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As we desperately attempt to put a dignified face on this obvious loss of face, the riot police in Seoul have gathered to confront any potential political backlash at the current administration. It would appear that uber-patriotism is superceded in South Korea by partisan rancor.
Oh, wait, I could almost be describing the U.S.A.. Well, at least we don't need to call out the riot police when a Dem or Rep leader comes to a nefarious end--yet.
But then I can't recall the last time a well-known Western politician killed himself.
Anyhow, the way I see it the Korean government just saved the taxpayer the expense of a lengthy trial. |
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