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samcheokguy
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Location: Samcheok G-do
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 Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I support immediate overthrow of North Korea by military means. To hell with the consequences, they've had 50 years to sign a peace treaty, never have, and have killed hundred of people since...not including their own. |
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3MB
Joined: 26 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| gangwonbound wrote: |
| jotgarden wrote: |
| 3MB wrote: |
| The Sunshine policy was practiced by two pro-DPRK traitors, Kim and Roh. It had nothing to do with changing NK, and all to do with channeling billions of dollars to the DPRK. It was a crime and it is now evident that it did nothing to change the DPRK, it did nothing to ease tensions. The only thing we saw was an illusion, where the Norks pretended to get along with ROK, stringing those two stupid lackeys Kim and Roh along and milking them for billions of dollars, all the while developing nukes, missiles and other weaponry. Please wake up. |
Good username. That earns you an extra troll star, for a total of three: *** |
Someone has an opinion and you call them a troll???
Grow up dude...He just stated his opinion |
Nope, looks like a troll to me. I give only two stars for being a bit too obvious. |
Of course I take that as a compliment coming from a guy with leftist, pro DPRK leanings. Tell me, honestly, do you think that the sunshine policy worked? Since it was put in place by Kim, NK has gone on to develop nuclear weapons and a missile program that threatens the same country that kept it afloat for so long. Sunshine was a failure. That is now evident and only a communist sympathizer could argue that it was a success. |
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jotgarden
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Location: Suwon, South Korea.
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| 3MB wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| gangwonbound wrote: |
| jotgarden wrote: |
| 3MB wrote: |
| The Sunshine policy was practiced by two pro-DPRK traitors, Kim and Roh. It had nothing to do with changing NK, and all to do with channeling billions of dollars to the DPRK. It was a crime and it is now evident that it did nothing to change the DPRK, it did nothing to ease tensions. The only thing we saw was an illusion, where the Norks pretended to get along with ROK, stringing those two stupid lackeys Kim and Roh along and milking them for billions of dollars, all the while developing nukes, missiles and other weaponry. Please wake up. |
Good username. That earns you an extra troll star, for a total of three: *** |
Someone has an opinion and you call them a troll???
Grow up dude...He just stated his opinion |
Nope, looks like a troll to me. I give only two stars for being a bit too obvious. |
Of course I take that as a compliment coming from a guy with leftist, pro DPRK leanings. Tell me, honestly, do you think that the sunshine policy worked? Since it was put in place by Kim, NK has gone on to develop nuclear weapons and a missile program that threatens the same country that kept it afloat for so long. Sunshine was a failure. That is now evident and only a communist sympathizer could argue that it was a success. |
I told you. Three stars. |
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Panda
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| 3MB wrote: |
| The Sunshine policy was practiced by two pro-DPRK traitors, Kim and Roh. It had nothing to do with changing NK, and all to do with channeling billions of dollars to the DPRK. It was a crime and it is now evident that it did nothing to change the DPRK, it did nothing to ease tensions. The only thing we saw was an illusion, where the Norks pretended to get along with ROK, stringing those two stupid lackeys Kim and Roh along and milking them for billions of dollars, all the while developing nukes, missiles and other weaponry. Please wake up. |
Wow, you sound like a North Korea issue expert, but I have to point out some obvious fallacies . 1st of all, it is not practised by Kim and Roh, it is a policy since former president Kim Daejung; 2nd of all, your right, the policy is not aimed to change NK's regime RIGHTAWAY, which is the premise of Sunshine policy, but SK government made this policy based on the understanding that NK and SK stem from the same nationality and will be reunited eventually, as I said, it is a long run policy.
From a humanitarian perspective. Sunshine policy did help millions of NK survive famine and open new windows to the world...
South Korean government did give attention to its poor neighbor that no one would be interested in otherwise (since there is no oil ).
The current LMB government is doing something some of your guys expect ( being iron) and it turned out to be not working.
About the nuclear weapon, I am on noone' side ( I am from a coutry owning NW), its the worst thing in the world, but still I dont see the fairness if this country is not allowed to have NW when the nulcear weapons are possessed by many other countries ( the number is going to triple in a few years)
That being said, when you dislike someone, you will look for every excuse to rationalize your dislike. |
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3MB
Joined: 26 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Panda wrote: |
Wow, you sound like a North Korea issue expert, but I have to point out some obvious fallacy . 1st of all, it is not practised by Kim and Roh, it is a policy since former president Kim Daejung; |
What;s the fallacy? Kim was ofcourse Kim DJ, and it was practiced by him as he put it in place. Roh kept it going until it was killed by 2MB.
| Quote: |
| 2nd of all, your right, the policy is not aimed to change NK's regime RIGHTAWAY,which is the premise of Sunshine policy, but SK government made this policy based on the understanding that NK and SK stem from the same nationality and will be reunited eventually, as I said, it is a long run policy. |
Its a dream, the problem is the northern brothers are an insane and nasty bunch who don't see re-unification in the same terms as you, they see it as attacking SK, taking it by force and subjugating it to their disgusting system. Giving them money, propping them up was a huge mistake, even a crime,. They should have been strangled at a time when they were in a much weaker position. THAT SHOULD have been the policy.
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| From a humanitarian perspective. Sunshine policy did help millions of NK survive famine and open new windows to the world... |
new windows to the world? Are you kidding? Do you think the regular north Koreans have any windows to the world?
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| South Korean government did give attention to its poor neighbor that no one would be interested otherwise (since there is no oil ). |
See, that was the mistake. The SK government is the SOUTH Korean government and its main, and ONLY responsibility is to guarantee the safety of the SOUTH Korean people. It is not its responsibility to feed a nation hell bent on destroying the South.
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| The current LMB government is doing something some of your guys expect ( being iron) and it turned out to be not working. |
If you been by not working that it is not giving NK aid without any conditions and therefore upsetting them, then yes. I see it differently.
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| About the nuclear weapon, I am on noone' side ( I am from a coutry owning NW), its the worst thing in the world, but still I dont see the fairness if this country is not allowed to have NW when the nulcear weapons are possessed by many other countries ( the number is going to triple in a few years) |
Wake up. The world isn't fair. Nukes aren't a right. A country that is openly hostile to others, makes daily threats against others, exports its weapons to terrorists and terror sponsors, which itself engages in acts of terrorism does not have the right to own nukes and it is in the interest of others to stop them, one way or another. Personally, I am for a massive strike on NK, one that would annihilate them within 48 hours. I think you know what that includes. They are a danger to others and should be eliminated from the equation.
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| That being said, when you dislike someone, you will look for every excuse to rationalize your dislike. |
What reasons do you have for liking them? Its an absolutely vile state. |
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Panda
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| 3MB wrote: |
| new windows to the world? Are you kidding? Do you think the regular north Koreans have any windows to the world? |
Running a TV or radio station in NK is obviously the best way to open a window, but is it possible? To my opinion, the better way to introduce information from outside is trough a gateway like Kaesung complex, you have to be patient when it comes to open their windows.
| 3MB wrote: |
| See, that was the mistake. The SK government is the SOUTH Korean government and its main, and ONLY responsibility is to guarantee the safety of the SOUTH Korean people. It is not its responsibility to feed a nation hell bent on destroying the South |
If you are from the states, I nominate you the most hypocritical people in the world. 
| 3MB wrote: |
| What reasons do you have for liking them? |
I am from a country that used to be the exactely same thing as North Korea is now. Millions of people died of famine and political persecution, the economy was shitty, but we still developed our NW, and few of us knew what was going on outside.
Fortunatetly, we were not totally isolated, some smart guys went abroad and saw the rest of the world and came back, said: we have to change. Boom, we did.
Kim Jungil is dying, and his son is taking over the power, will that make difference, of course it will, how fast, we donno, but it might be just in tens of years, as China did.
Many years ago, China was the poorest country in the world, but today, the rest of the world is kissing its ass, so you ask for what reason we should like such a country as N Korea...my answer would be: be nice to Cinderella, you never know what would happen tommorrow.
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Capo
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:03 am Post subject: |
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The sunshine policy and Roh in particular have made SK look and seem weak. As soon as they get a president who respected the dignity of SK again, NK went wild because they'd been given too much leniency in the past and are now trying to bully 2MB into a Roh style of weakness. I hope 2MB stands firm, close the joint economic area, search their ships etc. only then NK will realise they there are consequences to their actions. Sunshine policy gave no reward for progress, it just gave unconditional reward and no punishments for failure.
When those missionaries got caught in Afghanistan the whole world really saw how weak SK had become, a bunch of 2 bit thugs held this country to ransom and Korea caved quickly and it has actually encouraged groups around the world to target Koreans in particular. If it were my government caught in the mess I would have been lobbying to either send in special forces or just bomb the lot of them hostages and Taliban, then sent in thousands of actual troops as punishment. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| I thought the Sunshine Policy died when Lee Myungbag took office, in which case it was cancelled before it could fail. This was a failure of whatever Lee Myungbag's strategy is, which I think is being dismissive and praying to Jesus. |
I could have sworn that there was a nuclear test during the last administration.
Of wait... didn't they attack the SK navy as well?
But yeah, you're right, it MUST be LMB's fault.   |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Sunshine policy was the worst idea since Poland charged German tanks on horseback.
Lets get a few things straight. i feel some people are VERY narrow minded, and don't see the "big picture".
1. North Korea's view of reunification is conquering the South, and instilling THEIR system of government. A democracy undermines everything KJ, the military Generals, and the Elites in North Korea want.
2. China does NOT want a North Korea with a strong economy, nor do they want the collapse of NK. NK has been barely standing because of massive aid from China. Why hasn't the Chinese done MORE to help their communist neighbor? Its because they don't want NK to be strong. They just need them strong enough to keep a "buffer" between them and US influence (SK).
A Strong NK would start another cold war, giving the SK, US, and their allies an excuse to arm SK to the teeth. NK is a threat right now, but not a big enough threat to have the US Pacific fleet parked in Japan with their weapons ready.
3. The sunshine policy had many ramifications. First, it was the whole platform of the policy. North Koreans were propped up as "lost brothers and friends", NOT the enemy. The pro-NK governments of Kim Daejung and Ro reinforced taht ideology. Suddenly, you have a while generation of Koreans who think America is the enemy, and North and South Korea are victims of a "Westerm Imperialistic" philosophy.
Did people forget it was the communists who invaded South? Did people forget that the aggressors in Korean War were the NORTH???
<sarcasm> Oh yeah, the Sunshine Policy was a terrific idea! We'll give them money, food, and anything else so that their elite can use those to further tighten their grip on the brain washed population who refer to Snowballs as "Snow Grenades". |
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3MB
Joined: 26 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| But pkang, North Korea is Cinderella, we must be nice and treat her right. Kisses, flowers, butterflies and all that, you know. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
3. The sunshine policy had many ramifications. First, it was the whole platform of the policy. North Koreans were propped up as "lost brothers and friends", NOT the enemy. The pro-NK governments of Kim Daejung and Ro reinforced taht ideology. Suddenly, you have a while generation of Koreans who think America is the enemy, and North and South Korea are victims of a "Westerm Imperialistic" philosophy.
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You're forgetting the important fact that millions of South Koreans really do have "lost brothers" in the North. Would you rather go back in time to the military dictatorships, when citizens had to lie to the government about family relations up there? |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
3. The sunshine policy had many ramifications. First, it was the whole platform of the policy. North Koreans were propped up as "lost brothers and friends", NOT the enemy. The pro-NK governments of Kim Daejung and Ro reinforced taht ideology. Suddenly, you have a while generation of Koreans who think America is the enemy, and North and South Korea are victims of a "Westerm Imperialistic" philosophy.
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You're forgetting the important fact that millions of South Koreans really do have "lost brothers" in the North. Would you rather go back in time to the military dictatorships, when citizens had to lie to the government about family relations up there? |
I would want the South Koreans to realize that it is their "brothers" in the north pointing guns/missiles/artillery at them. It is not the US pointing guns at South Koreans. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
3. The sunshine policy had many ramifications. First, it was the whole platform of the policy. North Koreans were propped up as "lost brothers and friends", NOT the enemy. The pro-NK governments of Kim Daejung and Ro reinforced taht ideology. Suddenly, you have a while generation of Koreans who think America is the enemy, and North and South Korea are victims of a "Westerm Imperialistic" philosophy.
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You're forgetting the important fact that millions of South Koreans really do have "lost brothers" in the North. Would you rather go back in time to the military dictatorships, when citizens had to lie to the government about family relations up there? |
And you forgot the fact that there was a nuclear test during Noh's administration.
why no reply to that? |
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b-class rambler
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
And you forgot the fact that there was a nuclear test during Noh's administration.
why no reply to that? |
There was indeed. But did that happen due to the Sunshine Policy in place at the time or due to the US policy towards NK at that time?
I don't know the answer to that and I don't think it's necessarily a simple case of either one or the other. It's certainly a fair criticism that some who blindly support the sunshine policy do conveniently overlook the fact of the nuclear test during Roh's adminstration. But people on the other side of the argument are often equally eager to forget what the US policy towards NK had been for a few years leading up to the nuclear test. |
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Panda
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| b-class rambler wrote: |
There was indeed. But did that happen due to the Sunshine Policy in place at the time or due to the US policy towards NK at that time?
I don't know the answer to that and I don't think it's necessarily a simple case of either one or the other. It's certainly a fair criticism that some who blindly support the sunshine policy do conveniently overlook the fact of the nuclear test during Roh's adminstration. But people on the other side of the argument are often equally eager to forget what the US policy towards NK had been for a few years leading up to the nuclear test. |
That is a comment I really appreciate.
I am shocked at times how Bush is not just the name of a US president, but also the religion that lots of westerners believe in and feel proud of... even his unilateral international policy was proved to be wrong and led his country into a war against the whole Muslim world.
There are the questions, should we judge other's religion or culture by our own standards, should we consider how people from other coutries feel before we make criticism or millitary operation, if not, then how to define a war criminal from a Bushist. |
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