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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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 Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Nice. Another archivist and Gopher-groupie. RJjr: I wrote that post over one year ago, correct? |
You're incorrect, as usual.
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| RJjr, sounds like you're accusing Gopher of being a racist. And even if you're not, that's a rather simplistic argument you're making. Perhaps that's your point? |
I'm saying that it was wild speculation to claim that black Americans would be attacking white Americans after an Obama election victory. It ended up not happening, so I rest my case on that. It's also wild speculation to claim that Sotomayor was nominated because she's Hispanic, since there isn't a pattern.
My point is that the nomination of a Hispanic to the Supreme Court is an anomaly, even for Democrats.
Yet, Republicans nominated whites as their presidential and vice presidential choices in 2008, just like they did in 2004. And 2000. And 1996. And 1992. And 1988. And 1984. And 1980. And 1976. And 1972. And 1968. And 1964. And 1960. And 1956. And 1952. And 1948. And 1944. And 1940. And 1936. And 1932. And 1928. And 1924. And 1920. And 1916. And on and on and on and on and on and on.
There's actually an established pattern of Republicans going out of their way to nominate whites, but I never see angry white males complaining about that. But god forbid a Hispanic, just one, get nominated to the Supreme Court.
Why would anyone rabidly support someone like Palin, who went to Matanuska-Susitna College and the University of Idaho (and didn't even graduate on time), but then question the qualifications of a lady who graduated Princeton summa cum laude and Yale Law School?
I don't even like the Democrats, but at least they have enough common sense to nominate this lady who has a magnificent educational background and an outstanding professional background. If the GOP had chosen someone with an IQ of Sotomayor as their VP choice instead of a total clown like Palin, maybe McCain would've been the one nominating a judge instead of Obama. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| RJjr wrote: |
There's actually an established pattern of Republicans going out of their way to nominate whites, but I never see angry white males complaining about that. |
So what non-white republicans do you deem as viable candidates for a President or VP? Had Colin Powell decided to run in the 90s or 2000, I think GOP supporters would have backed him.
Besides him, are there any non-white GOP leaders? Michael Steele, but he's shot himself in the foot as the head of the RNC.
Point being your criticism is silly. You might as well criticize every EU country, since none have elected a non-white as a head of state either. I'm sure at least one or two of them have more qualified non-white candidates than the GOP has. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Palin wasn't selected cause she was white , she was selected cause she was a women , and might appeal to Hillary Clinton supporters.
Sotomayor has Palin beat when it comes to education by a wide margin but that is't saying much. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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RJjr: you have fallen back on tired clich�s ("you are wrong, as usual," etc.). Wonder what comes next? Am I a Fascist? You already label me "a rabid Sarah Palin supporter," so I feel confident that Fascism is coming...
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Bucheon Bum: I do not know what RJjr is talking about, in that point you responded to.
LBJ appointed Thurgood Marshall. But H.W. Bush appointed Clarence Thomas. And these remain the highest-profile judicial appointments. Has RJjr looked at appointment patterns in other federal courts? I doubt it.
Further, what about C. Powell, C. Rice, A. Gonzalez, etc., etc.
Again, what is RJjr talking about?
Washington Post |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
Article about Gingrich's attack on Sotomayor, accusing her of racism.
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Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) on Wednesday charged that Judge Sonia Sotomayor is a "racist."
"Imagine a judicial nominee said 'my experience as a white man makes me better than a Latina woman.' Wouldn't they have to withdraw? New racism is no better than old racism," Gingrich wrote in a post on his blog.
"A white man racist nominee would be forced to withdraw. Latina woman racist should also withdraw," he added.
Gingrich was referring to a comment Sotomayor made during remarks at the University of California, Berkeley's annual Judge Mario G. Olmos Law and Cultural Diversity Lecture.
"A wise Latina woman with the richness of her experience would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life," Sotomayor said.
Gingrich's comment came a day after conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh called Sotomayor a "racist."
Responding to Gingrich's post, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Sotomayor's opponents should be "exceedingly careful" in their criticisms. |
I have to admit, I agree with Gingrich that her words in this case were very racist, and further that Gingrich is absolutely right when he said a white man saying something comprable would probably be driven right out of the runnings. Gibbs' response is also total rubbish. Certain members of the hispanic community have tried to defend her words by saying she was just admitting she had a different background and that could lead to different conclusions, but that's not what she said. She claimed her background -- and her race and gender -- would allow her to reach outright better conclusions than, specifically, a white man. |
Frankly, there is a certain accepted racism in American society coming from minorities vis-a-vis white people, though that might seem laughable.
A black person or Latino can give a speech where he accuses the whites of racism or exaggerates racism is society and everyone is afraid to question him or her due to white guilt. Granted, racism is still out there vis-a-vis minorities, without a doubt, but her words that she is better there on the court than a white man is kind of saying she is a superior choice based on her race, and that's not acceptable, though I wouldn't use that remark to dismiss her.
It's such a common way of thinking, in the U.S., unfortunately, due to the guilt too many white folks have over prejudice from the past. I agree with Gingrich about her comments not being acceptable. Hey, the GOP has had leaders who have said worse comments when in power like when Cheney called Germany and France - Old Europe and once person before he became against the Iraq War was engaging in horrible French bashing and wanting to call French fries - freedom fries.
What the woman said wasn't the worst thing in the world in the American context, now is it? |
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DC in Suwon
Joined: 14 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: New Supreme Court Nominee S. Sotomayor... |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Apparently more race-class-and-gender slice-and-dice divisive politics. And now CNN is moving to call the Republicans "racist" for opposing her...
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| WASHINGTON -- The Republican Party risks further alienation from Hispanics by challenging the nomination of Sonia Sotomayor, who would become the first Hispanic, and third woman, on the Supreme Court... |
CNN Reports
The most sickening thing about leftists' politics today, besides their intolerance for an opposition, is that "the historic, first African-American president," "the first African-American attorney-general," "the first Hispanic" and "the third woman on the Supreme Court," etc. pass as merit.
Compensatory, hyperemotional, racist politics at their finest. |
I totally agree. But look, Obama didn't get where he got today because of color alone. He's an EXCELLENT politician. One of the greatest IMO. I voted for him. I like a lot of his policies, but I know he's playing the game. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed, I respect B. Obama's presidency very much. That is not the issue I raise here.
It offends me that the left is preemptively calling any criticism of Obama's nominee "racism" -- as did those aspects of her selection that likely precluded white males, and as does the speech, excerpted here, where she claims special powers over white males because she is a Hispanic woman...
Who are the ones throwing around racial markers here? |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| Well, she's no Harriet Miers, that's for sure. |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| RJjr: you have fallen back on tired clich�s ("you are wrong, as usual |
You said your post I quoted was over year old and asked "correct?" The post was only a few months old. If you didn't like the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question.
| Gopher wrote: |
| Again, what is RJjr talking about? |
Gopher, has the GOP ever nominated a non-white presidential or vice presidential candidate? Yes or no?
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| So what non-white republicans do you deem as viable candidates for a President or VP? Had Colin Powell decided to run in the 90s or 2000, I think GOP supporters would have backed him. |
Condoleeza Rice would've been a much better choice than Palin. Her educational background blows Palin's away and her professional experience is much, much more impressive. And she was one of the few people in the Bush administration that had any competence or class.
But look at the map of the states the traditional GOP states. The GOP relies heavily on the former Confederate states and a ticket with a black candidate on it is one where a lot of GOP voters would stay home.
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Palin wasn't selected cause she was white , she was selected cause she was a women , and might appeal to Hillary Clinton supporters. |
Your point that she was female is well-taken and I agree that it was a factor. But why Palin and not Rice? Rice would've been a really good candidate, but the GOP chose to go to the bottom of the barrel instead.
| Gopher wrote: |
| Who are the ones throwing around racial markers here? |
I checked for you and it looks like it was you in the very first post in this thread. 
For once in this thread, let's cast aside the hysteria over Sotomayor's race and discuss her qualifications only.
When I look at Sotomayor's background and the background of Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito at the time he was nominated by George W. Bush, it appears that Alito's background and Sotomayor's background are eerily similar.
In my opinion, Alito and Sotomayor are mirror images of each other. I believe they're both equally qualified to be on the Supreme Court.
To those of you upset about Sotomayor, saying she isn't "well-qualified" and such:
Do you feel the same way about Judge Alito?
If not, in what ways was Alito more qualified than Sotomayor? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| RJjr wrote: |
| Your point that she was female is well-taken and I agree that it was a factor. But why Palin and not Rice? Rice would've been a really good candidate, but the GOP chose to go to the bottom of the barrel instead. |
Honestly I think to a large extent Rice is too moderate and reasonable a figure for the GOP to get behind. I agree she would have been a good choice from the perspective of an independent voter, but from the perspective of a base GOP voter (who cares very intensely about a narrow range of social issues) she's nothing to get excited about, and they were clearly trying to excite their base voters with their choice rather than go strong for independents (a poor choice, but theirs to make I suppose). I don't think the fact that Rice was black was the show stopper for them.
| RJjr wrote: |
For once in this thread, let's cast aside the hysteria over Sotomayor's race and discuss her qualifications only.
When I look at Sotomayor's background and the background of Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito at the time he was nominated by George W. Bush, it appears that Alito's background and Sotomayor's background are eerily similar.
In my opinion, Alito and Sotomayor are mirror images of each other. I believe they're both equally qualified to be on the Supreme Court.
To those of you upset about Sotomayor, saying she isn't "well-qualified" and such:
Do you feel the same way about Judge Alito?
If so, in what ways was Alito more qualified than Sotomayor? |
I agree with you she's quite well qualified in terms of both education and experience; anyone saying otherwise is incorrect. The point of contention, I think, is mostly regarding her social outlook and the fact that certain of her words and actions could be construed as racist.
If Sotomayor were up for jury duty, and the case involved racial aspects, her past words and actions (if known) would very likely result in her being dismissed from consideration. Should a candidate for the highest court in the land be held to a lesser standard in that regard? Can no one with equal qualification who may be less suspect in this regard be found? Perhaps not, if we summarily rule out all white male candidates, but why should we? |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Alito made comments very similar to Sotomayor's during his confirmation hearings, so it seems like there's a double standard. Alito's remarks were viewed favorably by the same people dissing Sotomayor.
It's similar to how the people complaining the most on here and saying Sotomayor wouldn't have been nominated if she was white are the very people who have benefited the most in getting teaching jobs in Korea based on having European ancestry. This should be the last website on the entire internet where white people should complain about people of other races getting jobs based on race. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| RJjr wrote: |
| Alito made comments very similar to Sotomayor's during his confirmation hearings, so it seems like there's a double standard. |
Could you quote them please? I don't remember him saying anything remotely like Sotomayor's "A wise latina woman will come to better conclusions than a white man," line, for instance, but I may be mistaken. If he did, I'll happily concede that I have the same philosophic issues with him. |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Where Alito's words and Sotomayor's words coincide is that both admit their experiences and histories impact their judgements. Where they seem to differ is that Sotomayor claims her race and gender -- and the experiences derived from that race and gender -- make her outright better a judge than a white male would be, while Alito doesn't seem to be saying that being the descendant of immigrants makes him a better judge, merely admitting that it impacts him. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Precisely, Fox.
RJjr is not of a mindset to detect such nuance. Neither is he of a mindset to even stay on point: Supreme Court nominees rather than presidential nominees, for instance...
This thread deals with S. Sotomayor's belief that her ethnicity and gender make her inherently wiser than white males. In other words, Sotomayor's pro-discrimination and -racist worldviews. |
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