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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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 Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Passions wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| Passions wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| cangel wrote: |
| Why does everyone bring up Vietnam? America lost that war, yeah, yeah, yeah... That was a political war and the US military wasn't allowed to win it. The US could have turned Vietnam into a parking lot. |
Exactly. We didn't "lose" the war, we just walked away from it. |
58,000 deaths and 350,000 casualties. Vietnam turns Communist after US leaves. Yup, you're right, we didn't loose anything, we just walked away.  You must be a Cheney/Rumsfeld fan. |
The key word is "choice". I mean we could've just dropped a few dozen neutron bombs and waited for the dust to settle. We chose not to. |
Like I said, you must be a Cheney/Rumsfeld fan. "Winning" wars is all about flattening and turning other countries into glass, huh. As long as we drop hundreds of nukes, we'll "win." YEEEHAW! |
Huh? Well if it makes you feel better to put words into other peoples' mouths, then go ahead... No, I'm not a Cheney/Rumsfeld fan. I didn't advocate anything, simply described a fact. The US could've wiped out the entire population of Vietnam, even leaving nukes out of it, and won the war (personally I'm quite glad we didn't); just chose not to. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Passions wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| cangel wrote: |
| Why does everyone bring up Vietnam? America lost that war, yeah, yeah, yeah... That was a political war and the US military wasn't allowed to win it. The US could have turned Vietnam into a parking lot. |
Exactly. We didn't "lose" the war, we just walked away from it. |
58,000 deaths and 350,000 casualties. Vietnam turns Communist after US leaves. Yup, you're right, we didn't loose anything, we just walked away. You must be a Cheney/Rumsfeld fan. |
I think you should differentiate between military and political victory. We did kill 1.1 million of the enemy so they were giving well better than they were taking. US military might had very little to do with our failure to win there, it was a lack of insight into the situation. If it was just a simply matter of driving to the north and conquering all of Vietnam it would have been over in no time. Yet, as well all know that wasn't the case and we paid for it pretty good. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| shifter2009 wrote: |
| Passions wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| cangel wrote: |
| Why does everyone bring up Vietnam? America lost that war, yeah, yeah, yeah... That was a political war and the US military wasn't allowed to win it. The US could have turned Vietnam into a parking lot. |
Exactly. We didn't "lose" the war, we just walked away from it. |
58,000 deaths and 350,000 casualties. Vietnam turns Communist after US leaves. Yup, you're right, we didn't loose anything, we just walked away. You must be a Cheney/Rumsfeld fan. |
I think you should differentiate between military and political victory. We did kill 1.1 million of the enemy so they were giving well better than they were taking. US military might had very little to do with our failure to win there, it was a lack of insight into the situation. If it was just a simply matter of driving to the north and conquering all of Vietnam it would have been over in no time. Yet, as well all know that wasn't the case and we paid for it pretty good. |
Impressive until you realize how many unarmed farmers, women, and children went into those body counts. The brass demanded body counts and the men in the field complied, never mind how. An extraordinary number of enemy combatants' weapons could not be accounted for due to being destroyed or lost in the fighting. Sometimes as high as 90% of the rifles vanished.
Anyway, North Korea's arsenal is antiquated and poorly maintained, its mass army would be decimated in a war, and it may even be faking its so-called nuclear tests, although the missiles are real enough. Probably not time to flee the country yet. |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
| shifter2009 wrote: |
| Passions wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| cangel wrote: |
| Why does everyone bring up Vietnam? America lost that war, yeah, yeah, yeah... That was a political war and the US military wasn't allowed to win it. The US could have turned Vietnam into a parking lot. |
Exactly. We didn't "lose" the war, we just walked away from it. |
58,000 deaths and 350,000 casualties. Vietnam turns Communist after US leaves. Yup, you're right, we didn't loose anything, we just walked away. You must be a Cheney/Rumsfeld fan. |
I think you should differentiate between military and political victory. We did kill 1.1 million of the enemy so they were giving well better than they were taking. US military might had very little to do with our failure to win there, it was a lack of insight into the situation. If it was just a simply matter of driving to the north and conquering all of Vietnam it would have been over in no time. Yet, as well all know that wasn't the case and we paid for it pretty good. |
Impressive until you realize how many unarmed farmers, women, and children went into those body counts. The brass demanded body counts and the men in the field complied, never mind how. An extraordinary number of enemy combatants' weapons could not be accounted for due to being destroyed or lost in the fighting. Sometimes as high as 90% of the rifles vanished.
Anyway, North Korea's arsenal is antiquated and poorly maintained, its mass army would be decimated in a war, and it may even be faking its so-called nuclear tests, although the missiles are real enough. Probably not time to flee the country yet. |
Doesn't really negate the point that the failure of the war in Vietnam had very little to do with our ability to fight and kill the enemy and more to do with the politics surrounding the situation. The brass demanding body counts could be pointed to an example of politics getting in the way of tangible military success. I think we can agree the whole thing was FUBARed from top to bottom. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:04 am Post subject: |
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I see nothing about food and monetary aid stopping. It's all for show. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:41 am Post subject: Pigs |
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| The UN resolution on sanctions is in a week or 2, bassexpander. But a good start by China, no? |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:00 am Post subject: Re: Pigs |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
| The UN resolution on sanctions is in a week or 2, bassexpander. But a good start by China, no? |
Just long enough for them to allow things to cool down a bit and say that there's no need for sanctions because things are cooling down.
More of the same.
At best, they'll water-down any attempt to make sanctions tough. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| cangel wrote: |
| The area between the north and south is either devoid of vegetation (so both sides can see the other side coming), and or covered in rice fields. . |
Not sure what you mean exactly here. The DMZ has been untouched for 60 years and is without doubt the most luxuriantly vegetated zone on the peninsula. There ain't no rice fields there, cos there ain't no people. But plenty of thick forest and swamp with 10 foot-high grasses. Were it not for modern infra red technology it could probably hide an army of tens of thousands. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:23 am Post subject: |
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bassexpander wrote
I want the winning numbers of next weeks lottery results, in advance! |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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patongpanda
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
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