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beercanman
Joined: 16 May 2009
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 Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| MollyBloom wrote: |
| beercanman wrote: |
| I tried to change the motion of the sea. Language is like that. Forget about it. Wrong usage commonly used will replace correct usage after a while. |
You are completely right, but correct is correct. |
Sure. But what is correct is inessential to what you say, or what anyone says. The popular expression wins after enough usage.
(I like smart chicks though) |
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Lunar Groove Gardener
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Location: 1987 Subaru
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: |
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What was once "inflamable" is now "flamable".
It was really important that people understood that something had the potential to "inflame".
At this point to say something is not your "fort" will likely be met with similar lack of clarity.
Now, we can only hope that "orientate" doesn't replace its correct cousin.
"I could care less" is perhaps worthy of our collective pedantic ire.
On this board "then" is preferred to "than" much to the death of meaning.
We "should of" known what a can of worms awaited us as Englishists.
That said, I'm all for coopetition and anticipointment.
How can one choose sides in the battle of pronunciation when the same girl's name is pronounced: Meery, Mahry, Merry, Marely etc.? |
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MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Lunar Groove Gardener wrote: |
What was once "inflamable" is now "flamable".
It was really important that people understood that something had the potential to "inflame".
At this point to say something is not your "fort" will likely be met with similar lack of clarity.
Now, we can only hope that "orientate" doesn't replace its correct cousin.
"I could care less" is perhaps worthy of our collective pedantic ire.
On this board "then" is preferred to "than" much to the death of meaning.
We "should of" known what a can of worms awaited us as Englishists.
That said, I'm all for coopetition and anticipointment.
How can one choose sides in the battle of pronunciation when the same girl's name is pronounced: Meery, Mahry, Merry, Marely etc.? |
 Hear, Hear! Or...(Here, Here) ---->but the whole case of homo~ is a different thread!
^^That makes me think of the British Parliament and I really love the chants of Hear Ye! during the course of everything! |
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roknroll
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| beercanman wrote: |
| MollyBloom wrote: |
| beercanman wrote: |
| I tried to change the motion of the sea. Language is like that. Forget about it. Wrong usage commonly used will replace correct usage after a while. |
You are completely right, but correct is correct. |
Sure. But what is correct is inessential to what you say, or what anyone says. The popular expression wins after enough usage.
Yes, unessential, nonessential when it's a done deed. As for 'expresso' and other current bastardiaztions, it's not too late. (I luv avin my expresso on the espress bus to wark).
Others:
-with comparisons, than will always be the case regardless of improper usage (especially on this board). Perhaps it stems from the subconscious desire to use the 'f.o.' finger rather than the pinky.
-'should of' is correct for speaking, just don't write it this way. Should've, Could've, Would've.
-'melk'--while not proper pronunciation, it's easier to say. Similar to changing the 't' to a 'd' when speaking quickly....A is better than B. Though I really hate it when students use the full 'd' sound...bedder...slowing down between syllables sounds terrible.
(I like smart chicks though) |
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prideofidaho
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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I always heard my elders pronounce forte (personal strength) as for-tay.
That being said...
I pronounced suitcase 'soupcase' for far too long until some kind soul sorted me out.  |
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ursus_rex
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| I pronounced (mispronounced) misled as "mizled" with a short i sound for my youth and quite a bit of my adult life... |
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ursus_rex
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| and "chic" was pronounced like chick... not as it should be, like "sheek" |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| prideofidaho wrote: |
| I always heard my elders pronounce forte (personal strength) as for-tay. |
How else would you pronounce it? 'Fort'?! |
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Sleepy in Seoul
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Going in ever decreasing circles until I eventually disappear up my own fundament - in NZ
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| MollyBloom wrote: |
| tzechuk wrote: |
Must be. I am from the Midlands.
I just called my adopted mother (born and bred Derbyshire, grammar school, Music, French, English triple major at uni in the late 40s) and she said my pronunciation of it is perfect.. but then again, my mother is a stickler for *proper* pronunciation. Since the word's root is Italian, she prefers to say it the Italian way (she is a fluent French and Italian speaker).
BTW, I don't pronounce it the American way - I pronounce it the Italian way. |
It's not an "American" way. I'm American and I don't pronounce the word with a British accent. That would be ridiculous.
Again, it depends on how you are using it. I don't disagree with you if you are using the Italian term (with the long A sound at the end), in music or to rephrase as you said "loud," but if you are talking about one's strength, it's pronounced differently, as "fort"...with no long A at the end. There's different definitions for forte and two separate pronunciations for each word. |
[sarcasm] Although I have spoken British English all my life and taught (and still teaching) it for 7 years and have never ever heard anyone pronounce it as 'fort' I will have to bow to your superior knowledge even though you've never spoken nor taught it. [/sarcasm] |
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MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Sleepy in Seoul wrote: |
| MollyBloom wrote: |
| tzechuk wrote: |
Must be. I am from the Midlands.
I just called my adopted mother (born and bred Derbyshire, grammar school, Music, French, English triple major at uni in the late 40s) and she said my pronunciation of it is perfect.. but then again, my mother is a stickler for *proper* pronunciation. Since the word's root is Italian, she prefers to say it the Italian way (she is a fluent French and Italian speaker).
BTW, I don't pronounce it the American way - I pronounce it the Italian way. |
It's not an "American" way. I'm American and I don't pronounce the word with a British accent. That would be ridiculous.
Again, it depends on how you are using it. I don't disagree with you if you are using the Italian term (with the long A sound at the end), in music or to rephrase as you said "loud," but if you are talking about one's strength, it's pronounced differently, as "fort"...with no long A at the end. There's different definitions for forte and two separate pronunciations for each word. |
[sarcasm] Although I have spoken British English all my life and taught (and still teaching) it for 7 years and have never ever heard anyone pronounce it as 'fort' I will have to bow to your superior knowledge even though you've never spoken nor taught it. [/sarcasm] |
I'm sorry you don't understand the direction the thread has taken. Let me explain it to you:
Forte has many definitions, however, two are used the most:
1. one's strong point
2. loud �used as a direction in music
definition # 1 is pronounced /fort/
definition # 2 is pronounced /for-tē/
Americans and Brits have different accents, so perhaps they might pronounce them differently. However, whether you have a British or American accent, you should be pronouncing definition 1 and 2 differently.
Dictionaries have added the option for different pronounciations, but that's because people have mispronounced them incorrectly for some time, and it has become acceptable to say the word that way.
You can pronounce it anyway you want, but learned people know the difference and pronounce the separate definitions correctly. By the way, that's pronounced "ler-ned." (the "e" should be schwas, but Daves doesn't allow those )
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katepult
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Location: the other Gwangju (Gyeonggi-do)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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My mom pronounces espresso as "expresso" too.
"Acrosst" always bothers me too as in, "He went acrosst the street." It annoys me when other people say it, but I say it too if I'm not paying attention!
"Liberry" has bothered me since grade school when my school librarian said, "Don't talk in the liberry!" every class. My husband says I say "liberry" when I'm not paying attention. I don't believe him. |
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McGenghis
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Location: Gangneung
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Correct is correct or original is correct?
An apron was originally 'an napron'. Think nappies, for example. I am not going to don my father's napron anytime soon, though.
I accuse you of being the reincarnation of Bishop Lowth. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| beercanman wrote: |
| MollyBloom wrote: |
| beercanman wrote: |
| I tried to change the motion of the sea. Language is like that. Forget about it. Wrong usage commonly used will replace correct usage after a while. |
You are completely right, but correct is correct. |
Sure. But what is correct is inessential to what you say, or what anyone says. The popular expression wins after enough usage. |
Indeed. Such as the stupid "Ye". (Ye Olde Gifte Shoppe)
That's not "yee"! That's not a "y"! It's a thorn! It was printers' shorthand for "th". "Ye" = "The". But that's a lost cause now.
The semi-literate shall inherit the language.
| ursus_rex wrote: |
| I pronounced (mispronounced) misled as "mizled" with a short i sound for my youth and quite a bit of my adult life... |
That word...
When I was small and new to English, I would see "misled" written somewhere, and although I gathered correctly that it meant someone was mistaken/confused/got the wrong end of the stick, I thought incorrectly that the word was the verb form of the noun "missle". And I would pronouce it that way: "He was *missled*.  The Cold War was in full swing, and I was deeply interested in space travel & rockets... I guess missles were just on my mind.
I never made this mistake, but I always wondered what this "pottable" (potable) water was that people would talk about. Water you can carry in pots?
And please. It's not "aFICTIONado", it's "aFICIONado". (If you're not saying it faggy, you're not saying it right.)
I'd read the term "Keynesian economics" in print, but I'd never, as far as I knew, heard it spoken until my later teens. So I thought I was quite the little scholar when I attempted to impress my professor with my understanding of ken-nē-zhən economics. |
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Sleepy in Seoul
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Going in ever decreasing circles until I eventually disappear up my own fundament - in NZ
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| MollyBloom wrote: |
Forte has many definitions, however, two are used the most:
1. one's strong point
2. loud �used as a direction in music
definition # 1 is pronounced /fort/
definition # 2 is pronounced /for-tē/
Americans and Brits have different accents, so perhaps they might pronounce them differently. However, whether you have a British or American accent, you should be pronouncing definition 1 and 2 differently.
Dictionaries have added the option for different pronounciations, but that's because people have mispronounced them incorrectly for some time, and it has become acceptable to say the word that way.
You can pronounce it anyway you want, but learned people know the difference and pronounce the separate definitions correctly. By the way, that's pronounced "ler-ned." (the "e" should be schwas, but Daves doesn't allow those ) |
Thank you for that. I would like to say how grateful I am to you for telling me how I should pronounce things, but I can't. However, if you can show me anything other than your opinion about the correct pronunciation of 'forte' then I may pay attention to you, otherwise I shall continue on my merry, and correct, pronunciation way. (By the way, any references to American dictionaries or other American sources will be ignored.)
By the way, I do know the difference between learnt and learned. I also know how to spell 'pronunciation'. And how to use apostrophes. |
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MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| That's not a "y"! It's a thorn! It was printers' shorthand for "th". "Ye" = "The". |
You just gave me a wonderful memory of the old Anglo-Saxon courses I used to take... |
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