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eperdue4ad
Joined: 22 May 2006
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 Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Just last month, a radio program featured an entomologist who claimed that pre-ground coffee regularly contains cockroach bits He wasn't too upset about it, just mentioned that it is impossible to get the roaches out before the grinding takes place, so they're ground up along with the beans 
Fresh, Hot Cup of Cockroaches
Preground coffee is full of roaches, says one entomologist.
Listeners nationwide spat out a mouthful of coffee this morning when NPR�s Fresh Air featured an entomologist who informed us that preground coffee is full of cockroaches.
It seems Douglas Emlen, a biology professor at the University of Montana, was doing a research trip with an older entomologist who was obsessed with good coffee, and who kept making deviations from the trip route to get it. In the pre-Starbucks �80s, Emlen says, it was hard to find whole coffee beans, and the entomologist would sometimes go 45 minutes out of his way to find it. Why? As the entomologist finally explained, he had to drink only freshly ground coffee, because he had a serious allergy to cockroach.
�Preground�you know, your big bulk coffee that you buy in a tin�is all processed from these huge stockpiles of coffee � that get infested with cockroaches,� says Emlen. �And there�s really nothing they can do to filter that out. So it all gets ground up in the coffee.�
Of course, we all sorta knew this. Who hasn�t seen the lists of percentages of insect parts allowed by the FDA? And who hasn�t then willfully forgotten it because he wants to go on eating hot dogs?
Well, here�s something else to chew on: Chocolate, like coffee, is constructed from �huge piles of � cocoa beans, all piled up, that then gets ground up into something we all love and eat,� says Emlen happily.
[url] http://www.chow.com/media/7541 [/url] |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| eperdue4ad wrote: |
Anyway, anyone who wishes to avoid paying a moderate price for public health measures may gladly move to a country which has no EPA, FDA, etc. |
Yes, exactly!
Fox, are you listening? These alphabet agencies already exist. We already have a great deal of regulation. There's a plethora of agencies, on the local, state, and federal level, that make sure people do not get sick from poor food preparation.
| Fox wrote: |
| I don't feel reasonable efforts to keep people safe from harm deserve to be disparaged in this fashion. There's a decided difference between carelessness (e.g. tripping because you weren't watching where you were going) and getting sick from a cup of iced coffee because you didn't take it in for bacterial testing before drinking it. It's not like you can see the bacteria if only you look closely enough, and it's not like the fact that previous cups didn't make you sick in any way demonstrates future cups won't. |
Quite honestly I ridiculed it because I don't think its reasonable to create a nanny state. We have regulatory agencies. We have lawyers very willing to work on commission for the poor to attack deep pockets.
We have to be very careful peeling back the regulatory protections we have, because although I suspect they do not add value, I cannot be entirely sure.
And yet, we need to be just as careful before adding more regulatory protections, because they cost money immediately while providing a dubious benefit. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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I agree we all ready have a substantial amount of regulation, and honestly I'm more for better enforcement of regulation than more regulation per se (at least when it comes to food).
I'm not arguing in favor of a nanny state, or at least what I would consider a nanny state. Things like smoking, fatty foods, etc are all things a real nanny state would prevent "for the good of its citizens," but I certainly don't feel those things should be illegal. I feel like the term "nanny state" gets thrown around too casually. |
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Gatsby
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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Fox:
I agree we all ready have a substantial amount of regulation, |
In Korea?
I don't see much sign of regulation, especially with regard to food safety and restaurants in Korea. There are obviously some, but a lot of hazardous practices remain.
If there was bacteria, it is probably from all those water filters. If you don't do maintenance on water filters regularly, at least once every six months, they produce bacteria, and the water from the tap is far safer. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Gatsby wrote: |
| Quote: |
Fox:
I agree we all ready have a substantial amount of regulation, |
In Korea? |
Given the regulatory bodies mentioned in the quote Kuros was referring to, I believe he meant in America, not in Korea. The "we" I am talking about is the American people at least, since that's the "we" I thought Kuros was talking about.
If I'm incorrect and Kuros means there is a lot of regulation in Korea, I'm happy to be corrected on that. To be honest I have no idea what Korea has named its regulatory bodies, whatever they may be, and maybe they really did simply copy American titles. *shrug*
If we are talking about Korea, then either there isn't enough regulation or the regulation is not enforced anywhere nearly strictly enough, I'm not certain which. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Gatsby wrote: |
| Quote: |
Fox:
I agree we all ready have a substantial amount of regulation, |
In Korea? |
Given the regulatory bodies mentioned in the quote Kuros was referring to, I believe he meant in America, not in Korea. The "we" I am talking about is the American people at least, since that's the "we" I thought Kuros was talking about.
If I'm incorrect and Kuros means there is a lot of regulation in Korea, I'm happy to be corrected on that. To be honest I have no idea what Korea has named its regulatory bodies, whatever they may be, and maybe they really did simply copy American titles. *shrug*
If we are talking about Korea, then either there isn't enough regulation or the regulation is not enforced anywhere nearly strictly enough, I'm not certain which. |
I was talking about America.
But I do know that in Korea there is no duty to exercise reasonable care to prevent harm to others. I don't know exactly to what practical extent this hinders negligence suits, but establishing such a duty is integral to proving negligence in any American court of law.
There does appear to be a KFDA, though. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Fox wrote
If we are talking about Korea, then either there isn't enough regulation or the regulation is not enforced anywhere nearly strictly enough, I'm not certain which. |
Who are you to say Koreans aren't regulated enough? Koreans will demand the level of regulation from their govt that they feel is appropriate. I doubt they need or want anyone telling them what is best for them.
There is probably no demand as regulation would inevitably raise prices. Something most Koreans, seemingly, aren't willing to pay or can afford. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
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Fox wrote
If we are talking about Korea, then either there isn't enough regulation or the regulation is not enforced anywhere nearly strictly enough, I'm not certain which. |
Who are you to say Koreans aren't regulated enough? |
Someone living in Korea, working for the Korean government, paying Korean taxes, whose home country is closely allied with and providing military support to Korea, and with an actual concern for the welfare of my fellow human beings, who in this case happen to be Korean.
I know you don't care about the well being of other humans, Rusty, since anyone impoverished or suffering from any bad lot in life just chose to be poor and suffering according to you, but some of us do. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Quote: |
Fox wrote
If we are talking about Korea, then either there isn't enough regulation or the regulation is not enforced anywhere nearly strictly enough, I'm not certain which. |
Who are you to say Koreans aren't regulated enough? |
He's a citizen of a society that values free speech.
C'mon, man. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Quote: |
Fox wrote
If we are talking about Korea, then either there isn't enough regulation or the regulation is not enforced anywhere nearly strictly enough, I'm not certain which. |
Who are you to say Koreans aren't regulated enough? |
He's a citizen of a society that values free speech.
C'mon, man. |
I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to voice his opinion. I'm saying that the members of a different society(Koreans), who also have the right to free speech, don't agree with him. Further more, as he doesn't have a right to vote in said country, he doesn't have a right to impose his view points on it. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Quote: |
Fox wrote
If we are talking about Korea, then either there isn't enough regulation or the regulation is not enforced anywhere nearly strictly enough, I'm not certain which. |
Who are you to say Koreans aren't regulated enough? |
He's a citizen of a society that values free speech.
C'mon, man. |
I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to voice his opinion. I'm saying that the members of a different society(Koreans), who also have the right to free speech, don't agree with him. |
Really? Do you have some evidence for that?
| Quote: |
| Further more, as he doesn't have a right to vote in said country, he doesn't have a right to impose his view points on it. |
That's a pretty inane point. Of course he knows that. |
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Gatsby
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: |
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In case anyone has forgotten, here is the article cited by the OP:
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Bacteria found in coffee franchises
May 27, 2009
The Korea Food and Drug Administration said it found potentially harmful germs and high levels of bacteria in iced coffees and ice at 11 well-known chains, including Starbucks, McDonald�s and Dunkin� Donuts.
The recent investigation, conducted jointly with the National Council of the Green Consumers Network in Korea, involved 153 coffee and fast-food franchise locations nationwide.
Officials discovered that 18 of the locations investigated served drinks or used ice containing either harmful germs or levels of bacteria deemed risky to human health.
The food administration said it found, for instance, that the Hyperion Starbucks in eastern Seoul used ice contaminated with staphylococcus aureus, which is known to cause food poisoning. The ice also contained 12 times the maximum number of a certain type of bacteria allowable by law.
The Rosebud coffee shop located in Bucheon Station also tested positive for the staphylococcus aureus.
Officials ordered that both shops be shut down for one month as punishment.
Ice at the Hollys Coffee branch in Gwangbok-dong, Busan, contained 15 times the amount of bacteria allowed, while an Incheon branch of Korea-based fast-food franchise Lotteria sold iced coffee containing 34 times the allowable level. Although bacteria at these levels do not immediately cause food poisoning, it is still considered harmful, according to the state-run food safety watchdog.
The investigation also found that ice or iced coffees from branches of Dunkin� Donuts, McDonald�s, Burger King, Sweet Buns, Angel-in-us Coffee, Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf and Tom N Toms Coffee tested positive for colon bacillus. All of these locations have been ordered shut for 15 days.
More details of the investigation, including a list [in Korean] of the shops found with harmful bacteria, can be found on the KFDA Web site, http://kfda.go.kr.
By Seo Ji-eun [[email protected]] |
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2905360
I don't know anything about Staphylococcus aureus. The article says it can cause food poisoning, but I've never heard of getting food poisoning from coffee. It sounds like the concern would be that it might get into under- or uncooked food and multiply. This seems unlikely with cold coffee, which is acidic. Can the amount found in the coffee cause food poisoning, alone? And how did it get in the coffee/ice?
Wikipedia has an article, of course, which includes this section:
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Toxic shock syndrome and S. aureus food poisoning
Some strains of S. aureus, which produce the exotoxin TSST-1, are the causative agents of toxic shock syndrome. Some strains of S. aureus also produce an enterotoxin that is the causative agent of S. aureus gastroenteritis. The gastroenteritis is self-limiting with the person getting better in 8�24 hours. Symptoms include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and abdominal pain. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staphylococcus_aureus
Sounds like something I've had in Korea and back home. What caused it, I do not know; it could even have been airborne.
The wiki entry brought to mind Legionnaire's Disease, which was associated with water cooling systems:
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| Potential sources of such contaminated water include cooling towers used in industrial cooling water systems as well as in large central air conditioning systems, evaporative coolers, hot water systems, showers, whirlpool spas, architectural fountains, room-air humidifiers, ice making machines, misting equipment, and similar disseminators that draw upon a public water supply. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionairre's_disease
Bugs can breed on damp, cold surfaces, so perhaps the ice making equipment was contaminated. I think that has been reported in the States. People don't realize you have to shut down the ice machines periodically and clean them.
In the West, government doesn't just regulate these things, they educate businesses on how to operate safely, and require educational courses, when necessary.
Shutting a business down for a month as punishment, as Korea did, sounds unfair for a first offense, especially if no one actually got sick -- the article does not state this. It would make more sense to require the business to institute procedures to avoid contamination and to educate employees. If the KFDA simply punished these businesses without telling them what they need to do to avoid the problem, it would be bad policy.
As anyone who has read any similar article from the U.S. knows, government investigators would test and analyze until they found the precise cause or causes of the contamination. And they would publicize this through the press, both in the name of openness, and to get information to the relevant parties, so the problem could be avoided in the future.
That's what Korea needs to do: to use any problem like this to educate everyone involved on safe food preparation practices. For subsequent offenses, fines or other punishment are in order.
As to contamination in coffee, get real. I think most Westerners have opened plenty of cans of ground coffee. Have you found anything resembling non-coffee contamination, ever? I think I know what coffee looks like, and would have noticed - but maybe not.
I have never seen any contamination in whole coffee beans, green or roasted. I think reputable manufacturers grind coffee soon after it is roasted and then vacuum pack it immediately. So you are going from cold green coffee beans to extremely hot roasted coffee beans, a cooling off period of probably no more than an hour when any insects would be killed by heat if they got anywhere near the beans, then grinding and packing. I find this "huge stockpiles of ground coffee" hard to believe. You know what ground coffee tastes like a day or two after you open the can -- it gets rancid, fast. Only the very cheapest, worst coffees would be allowed to sit around in piles -- and I don't think any major brand would do this.
A note: During roasting an outer chaff is released from the raw beans and is removed from the beans, I would assume by blowing air. This process would probably remove any other light contaminants. |
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Gatsby
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:48 am Post subject: |
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I did a simple google of: contamination ice making equipment, and found several relevant pages, including this:
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Can Your Ice Make Your Customers Sick?
Did you know that microbial growth can cause biofilm or �slime� buildup inside commercial ice-making machines?
Cleaning the ice machine seems to be on everyone�s �one of these days� list. Unfortunately, waiting to maintain your machine can inadvertently lead to sick customers.
Ice Machines that are not cleaned regularly can cause the spread of nasty germs like Salmonella, E. coli, Shigella, and the Norwalk virus.
In one incident alone, over 5,000 people fell ill from the norovirus after consuming contaminated ice.
Just because ice is frozen, doesn't mean it cannot contain harmful bacteria or viruses. You can get very sick from contaminated ice.
In fact, at the University of Texas, Salmonella, E. coli, and Shigella all survived in a study of ice cubes mixed with a cola drink, scotch and water, or 85 proof tequila! Viruses also survive in ice cubes, so our food borne illness leader, the noroviruses (the famous Norwalk virus), can wreak havoc in the frozen crystals. Click here to read more.
Samples from nearly 50 restaurants and hotel bars in Chicago (Dec 2007), found nearly 20 percent had high levels of fecal contamination. Water samples taken from a restroom toilet showed less bacterial contamination than the ice from 21 of the restaurants and bars sampled. Click here to read more.
When ice machines are inspected, it is clear that many are not cleaned and sanitized very often, if ever. Mold and slime build up inside them, bacteria grows and your ice becomes contaminated. Numerous studies show that dirty ice is more common than people think.
So the bottom line is: clean that machine! |
http://www.icemachinecleaning.com/icehealth.htm
So this is one obvious possible cause of the problem found with the iced coffee. But theories are cheap. It could be in the water used, in the equipment used to make the iced coffee, the coffee itself, etc. Unless the government pins down the precise cause or causes, the problem can recur.
If Korea doesn't find the cause and simply punishes businesses for selling contaminated iced coffee, the message it will send to businesses is: Do not sell iced coffee.
And the corollary for the public is: Do not buy iced coffee.
I certainly would be more cautious. But then I make my own iced coffee, and I have never gotten sick. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| I don't drink iced coffee in general. I rarely ever do that. I drink my coffee hot. I also like my tea hot. I guess I feel better after having read this that I drink hot coffee, but I wonder how it's like in the US when it comes to sanitation. |
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