Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ryoga013]

Being spontaneous in class got me very negative reviews. I had another teacher come in and give a short presentation in the class. When I asked if they had anything to say about it after the other teacher had left, they all told me it was very rude to have done that.

Wait a second... Koreans telling others that changes without warning is a rude activity... wait for it... yeah, that's it. They didn't catch the irony.

So be warned, like every other thing in this country, they can dish it out, but god help you if you return the plate.

[retrogress]

come again?

sounds interesting, but more info please.

[ryoga013]

It's a conversation class in the Unigwon and like always Thursday is dead with low attendance (especially low being finals) and the drama club wanted to present something in the class. I told the instructor OK as showing the students different places they can go to help improve their English shouldn't be frowned upon. Considering how often I have things sprung on me last minute be student and faculty, almost everywhere in Korea for that matter, and that they had been boasting the blessings of Konfucianism (Korean Confucianism, not the real one) I thought it be ok not to ask them. Some of them were bored with the 5min drama presented a few interested. When the drama finished and they left, I asked if they had any comments. The ones that were fairly bored told me that "In Korea that's really rude; we didn't know there would be something like that." I didn't address the points above (lull in the class/I'm the teacher-Konfucianism) to the class but I am now debating on asking them about that "rude" behavior and if it is rude simply because I did it or are many Koreans rude in the same way?

[Mr. Pink]

I would have told them to get over it. I also would have said, learning English is more than just about the structure, it is also cultural. Sounds like you have some boring students. I always hated that.

[michaelambling]

[retrogress]

I was at school this afternoon (elementary school) and the Phillipine woman who cleans the bathrooms came up to chat. She asked what I thought of the students and I said they were ok, but not very studious. She said that she thought they were rude. I agreed, but later thought, "All Korean students are rude."

I'm suprised you haven't seen more of this. You will see more as time passes. Treat them like they are insignificant. That is Konfucionism. It's also the only thing they understand.

[okokok]

I think you should plan your activities.

[feckingreal]

ambling...despite what others may say I don't believe you are a professional troll...I think you have some valid opinions and interesting insights...

But, I believe these forums should be about solidarity, understanding and advice...

And once again, however, you have chosen a different road...

You have chosen to act superior, belittle the OP and give BAD advice...

OP...you were stuck in a difficult situation...and you made a decision...ok...maybe it didnt turn out to everyones liking...but that does mean you made the wrong decision...

I think you are right about Konfucianism and its a tough game to play...but don't take it personally when the it doesn't work out...

[ryoga013]

I thought it was rude for them to say it was rude in the manner they said it. Telling me that they would have appreciated some advanced notice would have been a much better way. I don't "demand" respect but I won't give them any without a little from them.

[retrogress]

I think it is very easy for foreigners in Korea to look at something and take it at face value. We don't have the experience (years of living here), the culture and social insight to make sense of it. For most of us we are looking at Korea through a cardboard box with a bunch of coin sized holes punched in the sides. You can look out of all of these little holes, get a feeling for where you are, even trick yourself into thinking you have a good idea of the scenery and what's going on outside. But if you were to ever actually climb out of the box, you would gasp and say, "so this is what it really is like!"

In the case of the OP, I think this also applies. She/he sees that things are always happening around her. She has picked up on this and it has registered as important amongst her understanding of how things work. Let's say you looked out of some of those holes and saw water. that would be important to you because you could build upon it to form understanding. It doesn't mean that you know what that water is. You just know its water, and that's ok because it gives you a feeling of understanding.

The problem is that you have no understanding of the context of what you have picked up on. In this case, it is "things always change in Korea" and "nobody plans". You see this and you figure, "it must be a norm". You have no way to understand it culturally, socially or contextually. You just know it happens, so "perhaps it is accepted" and "perhaps most people are used to it" so "perhaps I can, too, do it just this once".

It doesn't mean that any of your assumptions are true.

When you wrote about confronting the teachers with this problem, and they denied it, I immediately thought, "Ok. They do not understand this phenomenon the way the OP does."

Then I started trying to empathize with them and came up with this right away.

1. Perhaps people do things at the last minute or fail to make long term plans. It's hard to find people who will deny this in general. My Korean friends laugh and say, "that's right...." Asians in general do not plan like Westerns. Everyone knows it.

2. Maybe there are subtle rules about what you can and can't "not plan" in Korean society that we haven't learned yet. For example, "There's a barbecue tonight!" (It's happened to me) Is ok. But, "There's a teacher observing your class today!" wouldn't be ok.

3. We could suppose that the rules about suprising someone or not planning have something to do about putting people in an awkward situation or causing someone to lose face. Causing someone to lose face can be done simply by rejecting or ignoring their authority or presence. If you make someone who is in position 1 feel like he/she is in position 2, then you have caused them to loose face. (insecure weeners)

4. Finally (and this is why I am leaving and not coming back), in most cases the foreigner is "out of the psychological, social, cultural loop by default". We, usually due to language concerns, but also just because we are foreign, are concidered one step above the cleaning lady. You might find peers, as I have at my schools when you show them that you are as capable at teaching as they are, but until you "proove yourself", (just as black people often must proove themselves in the US before being accepted as equal) you will be considered as unequal. Period.

Your situation at the university is even worse because you are working with professors (I assume), so they already consider themselves far above you.

I would do the following:

1. follow your gut, do what you think is fine to do. your foreign, your experiencing a new culture. your developing yourself.

2. when you run into problems like you have, chuck it up as another experience, don't say anything to anybody because they won't understand you, won't support you, and will never, never say what they know you want them to say.

3. do everything to develop yourself professionally. Do it for your sake and not for anyone elses. (one day you will find yourself at the point where nobody gives you flak because they know they can't get away with it)

[michaelambling]

[ryoga013]

[michaelambling]

[Tjames426]

You might find peers, as I have at my schools when you show them that you are as capable at teaching as they are, but until you "proove yourself", (just as black people often must proove themselves in the US before being accepted as equal) you will be considered as unequal. Period.

***

Er...why are you living 50 years in the past...like the 1960s?

Er..what is your problem with African-Americans that you treat them as if it were the pre-1960s?

[Leslie Cheswyck]

I'm with ryoga on this one.

Most Koreans don't have the balls to say "I don't like it..."

Instead it's Korean culture this, Korean culture that.



Their game is to always get you on the defensive. "What, you don't like kimchi?"

I've learned not to take the bait on that.