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**The commonly mispronounced words list**
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MollyBloom

Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:24 pm Post subject:

JongnoGuru wrote:

That's not a "y"! It's a thorn! It was printers' shorthand for "th". "Ye" = "The".

You just gave me a wonderful memory of the old Anglo-Saxon courses I used to take... Very Happy

peppermint

Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:06 am Post subject:

I have tons of these little annoyances but most are regionally based. Around here, people talk about going to ChicaRgo, and it's like nails on a chalkboard to my ears. On the flip side, kids here often talk about playing in the backyarden- a compromise between back yard and garden, I guess, and I find that kinda cute.

Privateer

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:41 am Post subject:

MollyBloom wrote:

JongnoGuru wrote:

That's not a "y"! It's a thorn! It was printers' shorthand for "th". "Ye" = "The".

You just gave me a wonderful memory of the old Anglo-Saxon courses I used to take... Very Happy

I suppose there's just no way we can help annoying each other with these differences. For instance, I would say 'you just brought back a wonderful memory...' rather than use the word 'gave'; and if anyone pronounced 'forte' the same way as 'fort' I would have assumed they were just ignorant. But if that's really the way you say it over there...!

MollyBloom

Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:48 am Post subject:

Sleepy in Seoul wrote:

MollyBloom wrote:

Forte has many definitions, however, two are used the most:

1. one's strong point
2. loud �used as a direction in music

definition # 1 is pronounced /fort/
definition # 2 is pronounced /for-tē/

Americans and Brits have different accents, so perhaps they might pronounce them differently. However, whether you have a British or American accent, you should be pronouncing definition 1 and 2 differently.

Dictionaries have added the option for different pronounciations, but that's because people have mispronounced them incorrectly for some time, and it has become acceptable to say the word that way.

You can pronounce it anyway you want, but learned people know the difference and pronounce the separate definitions correctly. By the way, that's pronounced "ler-ned." (the "e" should be schwas, but Daves doesn't allow those )

Thank you for that. I would like to say how grateful I am to you for telling me how I should pronounce things, but I can't. However, if you can show me anything other than your opinion about the correct pronunciation of 'forte' then I may pay attention to you, otherwise I shall continue on my merry, and correct, pronunciation way. (By the way, any references to American dictionaries or other American sources will be ignored.)

By the way, I do know the difference between learnt and learned. I also know how to spell 'pronunciation'. And how to use apostrophes.

Well, don't get persnickety!

MollyBloom

Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:15 am Post subject:

Sleepy in Seoul wrote:

MollyBloom wrote:

Forte has many definitions, however, two are used the most:

1. one's strong point
2. loud �used as a direction in music

definition # 1 is pronounced /fort/
definition # 2 is pronounced /for-tē/

Americans and Brits have different accents, so perhaps they might pronounce them differently. However, whether you have a British or American accent, you should be pronouncing definition 1 and 2 differently.

Dictionaries have added the option for different pronunciations, but that's because people have mispronounced them incorrectly for some time, and it has become acceptable to say the word that way.

You can pronounce it anyway you want, but learned people know the difference and pronounce the separate definitions correctly. By the way, that's pronounced "ler-ned." (the "e" should be schwas, but Daves doesn't allow those )

Well, don't get persnickety!

According to the OED, there are 3 ways to pronounce the word:

"({sm}f{revc}{lm}ti, {sm}f{revc}{lm}te{shti}, formerly f{revc}{lm}t)

[a. F. fort, absolute use of fort strong: see FORT a. As in many other adoptions of Fr. adjs. used as ns., the fem. form has been ignorantly substituted for the masc.; cf. locale, morale (of an army), etc.]

1. The strong point (of a person), that in which he excels.

1682 SHADWELL Medal Epil. Ab, His Fort is, that he is an indifferent good Versificator.

2. Fencing. The strongest part of a sword-blade.

1692 SIR W. HOPE Fencing Master 3 The Strong, Fort, or Prime of the Blade is Measured from the Shell..to the middle of the Blade. 1809 ROLAND Fencing 3 The sword being supported by the fort of it in your left hand."

As you can see, the dictionary gives the original pronunciation, which is the one I give, and also the modern pronunciation, which supports my camp of the word being changed in passing time.

You can even see from the etymology of the word, that it was first used in 1682 and even spelled "fort." I added the second definition of the noun to show the same spelling, as evidence of the first pronunciation.

Now, further spelunking into the depths of the etymology shows the difference between the noun (derived from the French) and the adjective (from the Italian). The problem I see is that people often confuse the French origin and the Italian, so they will use "for-tay" for both the noun and the adjective, which is incorrect.

" [a. F. fort:{em}L. fort-em strong.]

Strong, powerful.

13.. K. Alis. 7710 Sampson theo fort, also, Daliada dude him wrong and wo. 14.. Pol. Rel. & L. Poems 238 {Th}ou most fort wit wele or wo. a1450 Knt. de la Tour (1868) 92 Dalide, that was wiff to Sampson forte. c1450 LONELICH Grail xlii. 471 Which dwk was bothe Riche & fort. 1494 FABYAN Chron. VII. 371 John..after many fort assautes wanne the sayd castell. c1611 CHAPMAN Iliad XVII. 112 Why should Fame make thee fort 'gainst our harmes."

http://dictionary.oed.com.ezp-prod1.hul.harvard.edu/

Young FRANKenstein

Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:41 am Post subject:

I'm going to use forte (pronounced "fortay") in every single one of my posts from now on, just to annoy Molly. There has to be a better windmill to tilt, no?

dean_burrito

Joined: 12 Jun 2007

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:55 am Post subject:

I wish I didn't know about this correct pronunciation of forte. Fortay is just some much more fun to say.

MollyBloom

Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:55 am Post subject:

Young FRANKenstein wrote:

I'm going to use forte (pronounced "fortay") in every single one of my posts from now on, just to annoy Molly.

There has to be a better windmill to tilt, no?

Well, now that you stated your intention, it won't be that upsetting to me, will it? Smile

The conclusion is this: people are going to argue and disagree as much as they want. I just find it interesting that people who are teaching aren't more welcoming of knowledge.

Docemur Docendo, right?

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