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China and North korea are finally falling out....

 
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:50 am    Post subject: China and North korea are finally falling out.... Reply with quote

N.Korea-China Spat Intensifies

China and North Korea have been criticizing each other in strong language since the North tested another nuclear device. The spat intensified since North Korea on May 29 condemned China and Russia, which are discussing sanctions against the Stalinist country in the UN Security Council, for being "sycophants" to the United States.

Top Chinese officials, usually known for their extreme caution, have changed their tune....

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2009/06/05/2009060500650.html
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geez, only took 50 years. Rolling Eyes
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pkang0202



Joined: 09 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think its all an act. I don't believe that 2 communists governments, with strict control over media, would really let a falling out between them become news.

The only explanation is they purposely wanted the media to report this, so China "looks" like it is in a more critical position of North Korea.
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dmbfan



Joined: 09 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think its all an act. I don't believe that 2 communists governments, with strict control over media, would really let a falling out between them become news.

The only explanation is they purposely wanted the media to report this, so China "looks" like it is in a more critical position of North Korea.



I would bet on it.


By the way, how did China obtain a seat on the UN Security Council, anyway?


dmbfan
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pkang0202 wrote:
I think its all an act. I don't believe that 2 communists governments, with strict control over media, would really let a falling out between them become news.

The only explanation is they purposely wanted the media to report this, so China "looks" like it is in a more critical position of North Korea.


It appears that because of a lucky geographical /strategic location, it the North Koreans can continue behaving like asses indefinitely...

Quote:
"Despite their long alliance, experts say Beijing cannot control Pyongyang. ........China has too much invested in North Korea to halt or withdraw its support.... "

http://www.nytimes.com/cfr/world/slot2_071306.html
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmbfan wrote:

By the way, how did China obtain a seat on the UN Security Council, anyway?

Obama did it?

Razz
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmbfan wrote:
Quote:
I think its all an act. I don't believe that 2 communists governments, with strict control over media, would really let a falling out between them become news.

The only explanation is they purposely wanted the media to report this, so China "looks" like it is in a more critical position of North Korea.



I would bet on it.


By the way, how did China obtain a seat on the UN Security Council, anyway?


dmbfan


They pushed their way to the front of the queue.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
dmbfan wrote:
Quote:
I think its all an act. I don't believe that 2 communists governments, with strict control over media, would really let a falling out between them become news.

The only explanation is they purposely wanted the media to report this, so China "looks" like it is in a more critical position of North Korea.



I would bet on it.


By the way, how did China obtain a seat on the UN Security Council, anyway?


dmbfan


They pushed their way to the front of the queue.


ha. Came from Nixon normalizing relations with them. Before that, it was Taiwan who was on the Security Council.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmbfan wrote:
Quote:
I think its all an act. I don't believe that 2 communists governments, with strict control over media, would really let a falling out between them become news.

The only explanation is they purposely wanted the media to report this, so China "looks" like it is in a more critical position of North Korea.



I would bet on it.


The People's Republic of China and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics used to have quite a number of "in the media" fallings-out. Neither side had any qualms at all about the grievance being aired in front of the international community. Both sides were doing so, of course, to play up to the folks at home and whatever (scant) international support they could muster.

Quote:
By the way, how did China obtain a seat on the UN Security Council, anyway?


When the United Nations was created, the Republic of China was granted a permanent seat on the Security Council. After the Chinese Civil War, quite a few nations recognized the PRC as the legitimate government of all of China while quite a few other countries recognized the ROC instead. During the 1970s, the United States and most other nations (I really cannot recall if there are still any hold-outs on this) switched their recognition to the PRC. The United Nations followed suit.
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:

They pushed their way to the front of the queue.


Then why aren't the koreans aren't on it?
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
During the 1970s, the United States and most other nations (I really cannot recall if there are still any hold-outs on this) switched their recognition to the PRC. The United Nations followed suit.


There are still a handful of countries that haven't switched to the PRC. They are mainly in Central America or small island nations. They stick to the ROC due to financial incentives (aka aid).
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From 2006...

Quote:
Countries that recognize the Republic of China instead of the People's Republic of China:

Burkina Faso, El Salvador, Belize, Nauru, Palau, Tuvalu, Marshall Islands, Solomon Islands, Kiribati, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Paraguay, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, Honduras, Panama, the Vatican, Swaziland, Malawi, Sao Tome and Principe, Haiti, Gambia and St. Kitts and Nevis




I wonder if Nicaragua recognized the PRC under the first Sandinista administration, or if they were hostile to the Dengist Running Dogs in Beijing.

It strikes me that Gopher might know something about this. Not that I'm demanding his participation on this thread or anything.

link
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ManintheMiddle



Joined: 20 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intriguing thread topic, OP.

I, too, have often wondered to what extent the Chinese are at odds with the North Koreans. Certainly the former is exasperated with the latter although the former gains some legitimate clout in world opinion by brokering the six-party talks, despite their now obvious failure.

And clearly both nations have demonstrated an almost exclusively self-serving foreign policy over the decades, so they understand each other's motives quite well.

The rift between the former Soviet Union and Red China took years to become a chasm and we might be witnessing a similar gradual falling out with these two.

That said, what China has most feared until now is the rapid influx of refugees into DongBei (i.e. Manchuria) from the DPRK.

But the recent underground nuclear test has increased their fears of a nuclear arms race in Northeast Asia--a very real possibility which even Hillary Clinton has just acknowledged officially.

In the game of saving face, though, temper tantrums between Asian nations are usually real and we have no reason to doubt these are--at least on some level. It's the same reason that the North Koreans will expect yet another apology if they are to release the two American journalists.

Of course, what no Asian power understands is that in the eyes of the West they have already lost face by dint of unreasonable response to events, as when the Chinese fishing boats badgered the American spy vessel off Hainan last month.

The telling sign will come if Premier Wen Jiabao comments publicly on it at the behest of the Standing Committee.
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