Korean Job Discussion Forums

[rapier]

Dominic: unfortunately I'm not allowed to kick kids out of class, bring in a baseball bat or otherwise...or show videos, or do fun things like crosswords.. I just have to stick to a fairly rigid scheduled syllabus. Which is good because it doesn't require a lot of time to plan...
Kwi's idea of sitting them facing the wall has merit, i'll give it a try. And i'm definitely lowering the expectations a little....

[Ilsanman]

Clearly from your psosts, the problem is much deeper than the kids. Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like your hagwon is not supporting your attempts at disciplining the kids.

If you manage to solve that problem first, the other problem can be solved in time.

[GRK]

I haven't had a lot of hagwan teaching experience - and it is different to other forms of teaching for obvious reasons, but I'll give you the benefit of my experience and hope it is useful in some way.

I took over a few classes from young guys that basically played with their students. The kids immediately demanded games and candy. I told them "no games, no candy. Your here to learn and I'm here to teach." I re arranged their seating and gave them written work to get initial control, and tested them on what they should have known given their study to that point - they knew next to nothing. I didn't allow them to chat, eat or mess about looking for the things they should have had. The kids complained to their parents from the first day and the director complained to me. I told him that I was the teacher and I was responsible for the teaching - he was the director and he could look after the mothers. I sent home their test results with a note written in Korean and asked the parents to sign and return the tests. A number of kids left. As the class progressed and order was established the remaining kids got to like learning and we were able to do some fun/interesting things. I continued to keep the parents infoormed via written/signed homework. At the end of each lesson I always asked them what they had learned during that lesson. Next session all the kids that had left returned. The director was in no way supportive of my approach - hostile actually, but I responded to him in much the same way as I responded to the kids...After I left that hagwon the worst offenders asked me to teach them privately. Basically, you have to come from a position of strength - unless they respect you they will learn little. I have found (so far) that Korean kids are often up for a challenge.
Good luck.

[seirogan]

Here is my suggestion for an unruly class. I has worked for me in most classes. It may be a little tedious for a few classes in the beginning but in the long run it works. One unruly student disrupts the whole class and that one student is often egged on by the giggles or whispers of the others. When even one student starts to get out of hand, warn them you are going to start the lesson over. At first, they will not believe you. Do it a couple of times, go back and do the same exercise again and again. They soon get the clue and the other students will quickly turn on the student who is causing the disruption. "Yah, we are going to start over again." After my students learn my policy, all I need to do is bite my lower lip and give the disruptive student the 'evil eye' and they stop or get "yah" from every other student. Believe it or not, my students like my classes. When they are being good they get my respect and they have fun learning but when they are out of line....the evil eye is enough.

[silver]

"some students can be more aggresive than others or may be attention seekers"..
I guess your case is "attention seekers" . When you punish them, they get THE EXCLUSIVE ATTENTION. Do they feel sad after your punishment? Or they return to their seats with a proud victory look on their faces?
How about the kiss idea, also Seirogan's proposal?
It must be difficult for you in hagwon with so strict policy. The games or crosswords could make your teaching easier.

[rapier]

They're not bad as kids go..its just that studying english falls low on their list of priorities now that puberty has struck. They've had years of being drummed the same parrot fashion sentences etc...but I have a schedule to follow, which has to be adhered to...
The disciplinary measures such as standing in the corner etc have some effect, but overall its just a numb indeifference.
I can no longer lose my temper at kids, really.. and perhaps this class is just a result of my own and their general lack of enthusiasm and tiredness at the end of a long day, as such we all see it as a sort of winding- down time before going home.
I guess if I show more interest in their little lives , they might co-operate more..its probably the best effort to be done at the moment because I'm in a corner here. I've turned hellish classes around before- I think I've exhausted disciplinary options, its time to try a little candy.
A sort of resignation can actually be useful sometimes as CLG says, - you're not going to change them, and once they see you chilling out instead of forcing everything, they take more notice, sometimes..
Seirogan: good suggestion, I'll use that..
GRK: I admire your dedication on that. I guess i have to admit that I lack the energy or caring to go through with all that. If I taught them earlier in the day, I probably would.
Everyone: Thanks for your ideas.

[Alias]

[waterbaby]

I'll wade in late...

I think it all depends on what YOU want to do with the class. Do you have the energy to persist? Do you have the energy to change the attitudes of your more unruly students? If you don't, then don't beat yourself about it. Do what you can for those more studious students.

I personally think that every student and every class has a key that unlocks enthusiasm and excitement for learning English. It just might take a long time, a lot effort and a lot of experiments to find it.

These disruptive boys might be acting this way because they are bored (as you said, English is low on their list of priorities) ... but delve a bit deeper to find out why. Why is English such a low priority? Because it's not fun & interesting? Because it's difficult? Find out what they are interested in and try and tailor part of your lesson to their interests. You mentioned that you'd try and find out a little bit about their lives. Give them a survey to fill out with each other ~ make it a class activity.

If your students are struggling to understand the material they will most likely lack a feeling of success in your classroom & can't be bothered to even try because they see themselves as so far behind that it's futile to even attempt the work. Look for ways you can give them small feelings of success and build this up.

Breaking up the class to work on activities in small groups might be another way for you to put the trouble makers together so you can spend some quality time with the good students & then give some extra help to the troublemakers.

I haven't worked with surly middleschoolers for about a year and a half ... But one thing I remember (and this works for all the age levels I've taught) is to get them curious about something and then ignore their initial curiousity & questions... smile noncholantly and shrug it off. The cooler you are, the more determined they become to find out what you're doing or what something is

Good luck!

[tomato]

Hello, Rapier!

Here are my favorite techniques, arranged in order from the nicest to the meanest:

On the blackboard, list all the students who hangukmal. If you accumulate the majority of the student's names on that list, direct a round of cheers for those students whose names are not on the list.

"One, two, three, four,
Who are we for?
Stephanie, Stephanie, Stephanie!

Declare Friday as Game Day. (I handmake all my games. See if your boss will agree to handmade games which follow the syllabus.) Cancel the holiday celebration for classes which misbehave. I'm betting 10 to 1 that you will only have to do this once.

Walk up close to the misbehaving students. This works especially well with older students, because they regard proximity to the teacher as a sign of the Oedipus complex.

"Let's do that again, and see if we can do it without Jason acting silly." If Jason acts silly the second time, do it a third time, and so on. The classmates will become irate if they have to keep repeating a boring exercise, and Jason knows that.

Get 10 copies of the most boring textbook you can find. I have 10 copies of Side by Side. Dismiss the well-behaving students early and give the misbehaving students 5 minutes of drill using Side by Side.

Expose their misbehavior as a plea for attention. I clasp my hands together, tilt my head, smile benignly, and say, "Oh, John, you're so cute?"

In extreme cases, drop the English lesson for a few minutes and say, "Do it again, John." Then zero in on John and exhort his classmates to do likewise. When John repeats his whistle, animal imitation, or falsetto call, laugh at him. Exhort his classmates to laugh at him, too.

John has not rehearsed his routine for such focussed attention, so this will put him in a very uncomfortable position. When the show is over, you can say, "Now can we get back to the English lesson?" Most likely, John will say yes.

Rapier, you are probably improving as a disciplinarian more than you realize. You may improve imperceptibly on most days, but if you multiply that times the number of days, you may arrive at a hefty sum.

I myself have not been conscious of improving very rapidly on matters constabulary. But when I look back on my first few months, I see that some fairly shocking things happened. I had one class which was all boys. One time, I loosened the reins to the point that the boys made pencil drawings of my anatomy. The director found out and gave the boys a piece of his mind. I can't imagine anything like that happening now.

[mourningclam]

I have to admit, I have the same problem of students being surley and disruptive in class, especially the older middle school aged students. It is much easier to control a class of elementary students, primarilly around the ages of fourth and fifth grade because they are apt to please the teacher. I think the best advice to give that has worked for me is to not show any emotion whatsoever when having to discipline a student for being disruptive. I usually try to lean towards the way of public humilliation. Make the student look like a fool in front of the rest of the class. It works. For example, if a student is doing something stupid in class, like throwing things in class, I usually try to have the said student continue the activity in the hallway. Wonjangnim wll eventually come upon that student and take care of things for me. Of course, a lot of teachers dont have the luxury of sending the reprobates out.

Oh, this is my first post, hope I could add something meaningful.

[gajackson1]

rapier, you've been here awhile now, and you are hitting a wall most others will at one time or another.

I SUSPECT your hakwon isn't backing you, but I can 95% guarantee who will . . .

from a co-worker you can trust, get the home addresses of the 3 boys. Set aside the time, AND GO VISIT THEIR HOUSES.

Even if they don't speak ANY English, and you NO Korean, they will get the point. Try to start with the worst one/leader first.

This also goes well the other way - if you have a good student, be sure to touch base with their parents as well.

I used to do that in Texas - I'd call or stop in on my parents once every 6 weeks or so. I tell you, my parents there were VERY receptive, and over here it is even moreso. If the parent knows what is going on, directly from the teacher (not coddled/sugar-coated from the school), chances are you will get your needed BMs.

This will also prevent/terrify any other students who think you have given up, as well.

Regards,

Glen

[rok_the-boat]

Man, you guys are novices! I no longer teach in Academies but here is the deal.

All you have to do is find ONE mother of one GOOD student. Hang around and see if any moms come to pick up their kids etc and have a quiet word. Tell them such and such a kid is disrupting the class. Many mothers know each other and if there is a problem they all phone each other like crazy, gang up, and then bombard the school with calls. It's so automatic it's almost a ritual. I did this in Japan and I can attest that it is THE ultimate tool. At worst, the kid'll be sent to another class (your friend's) but I had a kid kicked out of the school - and that was great for bringing the rest into line. The boss saw the light in the end too.

If you can meet a couple of moms for coffee, become their friends etc, they'll always support you and hassle your boss on your behalf.

[Crois]

I thought everyone knew about Coffee Girls. My Korean Director comes in and starts using words like Junga Junga and grabbing her own breasts, and she looks sexy. These kids are only about 10.

[RedRob]

What the hell is Junga Junga?

[ajuma]

With "uncooperative" students, I use the "last to leave" approach. I'll bet that these three boys are the FIRST kids out the door when it's time to leave, right? Well, letting the others go first (set up some kind of "point" system where the "good" kids get credit) makes the sentence "Do you want to be the last to leave?" a warning that they WILL be last, and hopefully change their behavior. Good luck!