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ekul
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Location: [Mod Edit]
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 Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Goku wrote: |
I'm sure he's totally in the same boat with some lazy ass kid who wants to get paid to party and teach english but was too incompetent, underqualified, lazy, or stupid to get a visa like every other normal teacher that comes over.
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Here comes the wow geek to try and bash 'lazy ass kids' that teach in Korea.
The discussion is comparing legal E2 visa holders to illegal Mexicans in the USA, not people who are ' too incompetent, underqualified, lazy, or stupid to get a visa'.
It irks me so much that you continually accuse people of being free boating, fresh out of 'college' party fiends. When the truth of the matter is not long ago you were the thing you despise, giving out candy, playing games and even being late to work because of a computer game.
I'm not going to comment on anything else in your verbose reply, because as usual it is just full of unfounded opinion. |
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Goku
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| ekul wrote: |
| Goku wrote: |
I'm sure he's totally in the same boat with some lazy ass kid who wants to get paid to party and teach english but was too incompetent, underqualified, lazy, or stupid to get a visa like every other normal teacher that comes over.
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Here comes the wow geek to try and bash 'lazy ass kids' that teach in Korea.
The discussion is comparing legal E2 visa holders to illegal Mexicans in the USA, not people who are ' too incompetent, underqualified, lazy, or stupid to get a visa'.
It irks me so much that you continually accuse people of being free boating, fresh out of 'college' party fiends. When the truth of the matter is not long ago you were the thing you despise, giving out candy, playing games and even being late to work because of a computer game.
I'm not going to comment on anything else in your verbose reply, because as usual it is just full of unfounded opinion. |
Bro what is it that you have got against me? Well I guess I can understand your rage because so many people on this forum hate me so. Oh my god, people on Dave's hate me... I would hope so.
I reiterated numerous times that beign late was not the WoW. I was joking and the real reason I was late is because I wanted to avoid the throng of kids saying "hello TEACHER!!!! AHHH" to me. If you're gonna talk about unfounded opinions you should really go back to the thread and read all my posts again. My being late I said many times was my fault. And I fixed it. It wasn't wow. I did the WoW thing 2 times.
Also, yes I was the candy and stickers games etc teacher. But that was purely out of ignorance. When I realized my kids didn't learn anything I switched my technique. And that wasn't out of laziness that was a teaching techniques. You can still be a hardworking teacher and still do games, stickers, and candy. There are situations in works in. Although one would assume from my old avatar I didn't think that but that's not necessairly the case. It's an avatar of satire about teaching methods and classroom management.
You've pegged me as a bad person cause i'm late like 5 minutes to work because of WoW? (which wasn't even true to begin with). Whatever man, if that's what you take to completely invalidate any opinion you better look at everyone with the same eye. Why just target me? You know there are posters here who do privates? how about drug users? how about illegal teachers? All of them surely aren't worthy of opinions or having thoughs more than I am, given the fact that I have a softer offense. Take things into perspective.
Also, In comparing. I'm talking about non-visa holders as lazy incompenent freeloaders. Like I said, if you can't get a visa to a country then 1) You have a problem, like drugs, sexual violations etc. or 2) you're underqualified like not having a degree. Otherwise, it's really easy as hell to get an E-2 visa here. And if you STILL work in Korea despite not having a visa, then you are breaking a law and for what motivation? Somehow I highly doubt hard working trained ESL professionals with no criminal background are getting their E-2's rejected so it must be a pool of "other" applicants that get rejected.
Motivations for working in this country do not include not finding a job, starvation, or family emergencies. They could be, but then teaching ESL in Korea would be one of the worst options availble. They are people who want an easy job, with higher pay. ESL teaching (for most, and those motivated to come here illegally) is easy. You teach your native language. Anyone can get a job back at home if their family was starving, had an emergency, or was poor. McDonalds is still hiring. McyDees is the faster and better route if money was an immediate problem. But they don't so therefore the ease of ESL teaching is the allure. In which case making illegal teachers here not in the same boat as mexican immigrants (literally and metaphorically).
And that is why they get different treatment by the government. The US government takes pity on Mexican migrant workers. That's why they get preferrential treatement and "rights". Should the Korean government pity your average illegal ESL teacher here? I don't know, but those American Eagle outfitters jacket doesn't make me think so. |
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Illysook
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| This is a comparison of apples to oranges. If you want to compare illegal workers, compare the Mexicans and Guatemalan maids and factory workers in America to the Fillipina and Pakistani maids and factory workers here. I honestly don't know the differences, but I suspect that America treat it's illegal workers marginally better. |
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ekul
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Location: [Mod Edit]
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Going off on 5 different tangents in one reply doesn't get anybody anywhere. You're a stuck record. The discussion hadn't even broached unqualified teachers, people doing privates or drugs.
I don't want to attack you, it's just you have a posting style that grates immensely on me. Yet you're so active and post so much in such large volumes that I just want to scream.
It's kinda ironic that the place where many come to vent creates more anger in me than just sitting in a Korean office.
Illysook: The discussion was indeed comparing apples to oranges, but once more we have apples, oranges, peaches, bananas and pineapples. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Illysook wrote: |
| This is a comparison of apples to oranges. If you want to compare illegal workers, compare the Mexicans and Guatemalan maids and factory workers in America to the Fillipina and Pakistani maids and factory workers here. I honestly don't know the differences, but I suspect that America treat it's illegal workers marginally better. |
I don't know about America...but Canada's not all that great.
Ever hear of Ruby Dhalla? She is/was a member of the Canadian government. She hired illegal immigrants for housecleaners and withheld their passports (hmm seems she was taking lessons from Korean hakwon owners).
Then there's Maple Leaf which engaged in such practises as housing
17 foreign workers to one duplex. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Then there is the Alberta Federation of Labor which found (particularly in the oilfields) that many foreign workers were not paid, in addition to having to pay thousands of dollars for "broker fees" (illegal BTW). If they complained, they usually got threatened with deportation.
And there's many more cases like that.
I suspect America is much the same.
The one big difference is that we do have some teeth in our enforcement acts, but when companies like Maple Leaf are still running to this day and when members of our own government hire illegal workers, it kind of weakens the argument that foreign workers have it better over there.
I wouldn't be at all suprised to find a website for foreign workers in Canada or America, with many of the same complaints we read about on Dave's. |
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dporter
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
How many socks are going to post on this thread and bash the USA? Making up stories about the USA? Never have any links, eh? Since you can post SOME details, why not share the rest of the details? If you really are a lawyer who worked on "cases" you are now discussing online, then you should be able to post all of the details and provide court case numbers, etc..., that is if you aren't just making it all up. At least post the name of the company and the dates involved so others can verify all of this. 
Face it- illegals in the USA get treated much better than legal E2 teachers in South Korea. It's the truth. |
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/03/us/03deport.html
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Eight years ago, Mr. Jim�nez, 35, an illegal immigrant working as a gardener in Stuart, Fla., suffered devastating injuries in a car crash with a drunken Floridian. A community hospital saved his life, twice, and, after failing to find a rehabilitation center willing to accept an uninsured patient, kept him as a ward for years at a cost of $1.5 million.
What happened next set the stage for a continuing legal battle with nationwide repercussions: Mr. Jim�nez was deported � not by the federal government but by the hospital, Martin Memorial. After winning a state court order that would later be declared invalid, Martin Memorial leased an air ambulance for $30,000 and �forcibly returned him to his home country,� as one hospital administrator described it. |
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| American immigration authorities play no role in these private repatriations, carried out by ambulance, air ambulance and commercial plane. Most hospitals say that they do not conduct cross-border transfers until patients are medically stable and that they arrange to deliver them into a physician�s care in their homeland. But the hospitals are operating in a void, without governmental assistance or oversight, leaving ample room for legal and ethical transgressions on both sides of the border. |
Illegal immigrants are treated far worse than most people can imagine. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
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Face it- illegals in the USA get treated much better than legal E2 teachers in South Korea. It's the truth.
[: |
Mr wylies, you are entitled to believe whatever fairy tales you tell yourself.
But please don't subject the rest of us to this kind of tripe.
Some illegals may get treated better...but that's the exception not the norm. I very much doubt the average illegal in the States gets free housing, a $2000+ / month job, and only works 20-30 hours a week to boot. Nor do they get a 1 month bonus or paid pension or medical insurance (at least those of us who are legal can fight for these benefits and get them if we aren't already.) They can't as they are illegal. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| wylies99 wrote: |
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Face it- illegals in the USA get treated much better than legal E2 teachers in South Korea. It's the truth.
[: |
Mr wylies, you are entitled to believe whatever fairy tales you tell yourself.
But please don't subject the rest of us to this kind of tripe.
Some illegals may get treated better...but that's the exception not the norm. I very much doubt the average illegal in the States gets free housing, a $2000+ / month job, and only works 20-30 hours a week to boot. Nor do they get a 1 month bonus or paid pension or medical insurance (at least those of us who are legal can fight for these benefits and get them if we aren't already.) They can't as they are illegal. |
Perhaps there'd be more illegal Canadians going there if that was the case. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| wylies99 wrote: |
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Face it- illegals in the USA get treated much better than legal E2 teachers in South Korea. It's the truth.
[: |
Mr wylies, you are entitled to believe whatever fairy tales you tell yourself.
But please don't subject the rest of us to this kind of tripe.
Some illegals may get treated better...but that's the exception not the norm. I very much doubt the average illegal in the States gets free housing, a $2000+ / month job, and only works 20-30 hours a week to boot. Nor do they get a 1 month bonus or paid pension or medical insurance (at least those of us who are legal can fight for these benefits and get them if we aren't already.) They can't as they are illegal. |
Perhaps there'd be more illegal Canadians going there if that was the case. |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| wylies99 wrote: |
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Face it- illegals in the USA get treated much better than legal E2 teachers in South Korea. It's the truth.
[: |
Mr wylies, you are entitled to believe whatever fairy tales you tell yourself.
But please don't subject the rest of us to this kind of tripe.
Some illegals may get treated better...but that's the exception not the norm. I very much doubt the average illegal in the States gets free housing, a $2000+ / month job, and only works 20-30 hours a week to boot. Nor do they get a 1 month bonus or paid pension or medical insurance (at least those of us who are legal can fight for these benefits and get them if we aren't already.) They can't as they are illegal. |
Perhaps there'd be more illegal Canadians going there if that was the case. |
Furthermore, The Urban Institute, a respected Washington, D.C. based nonpartisan research group that collects data and conducts policy research issues, estimates "between 65,000 and 75,000 undocumented Canadians currently live in the United States."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States
There are more than a few |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| wylies99 wrote: |
[
Face it- illegals in the USA get treated much better than legal E2 teachers in South Korea. It's the truth.
[: |
Mr wylies, you are entitled to believe whatever fairy tales you tell yourself.
But please don't subject the rest of us to this kind of tripe.
Some illegals may get treated better...but that's the exception not the norm. I very much doubt the average illegal in the States gets free housing, a $2000+ / month job, and only works 20-30 hours a week to boot. Nor do they get a 1 month bonus or paid pension or medical insurance (at least those of us who are legal can fight for these benefits and get them if we aren't already.) They can't as they are illegal. |
Perhaps there'd be more illegal Canadians going there if that was the case. |
Perhaps. But it isn't the case...which was kind of my point. |
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| madoka wrote: |
For college educated white people on here to claim they know anything about how illegals have it in the U.S. just goes to show how arrogant, stupid, and out of touch they are. |
What exactly did he write that was racist? You really need to check yourself. |
it is not I who needs to check myself - on the contrary -
ironically, it's those who claim not to be racist that are usually the worst.
now, just to keep this as a teaching moment, let's just say someone posted "how ridiculous it would be to defend all those yellow hakwon directors which just proves how arrogant, stupid and out of touch such an individual would be."
do you have even half a sense of how incredibly offensive it is to just use an adjective of color when describing people in terms of personality, or intelligence, or SEC (socio economic status)??
IT IS ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT WHEN USED TO DESCRIBE CAUCAUSIANS AS IT IS PEOPLE OF COLOR.
btw, I find it doubly offensive being of mixed heritage 
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further to the point about all these extreme cases in the U.S. - kindly make note of the fact that because the U.S. is truly an open society, which supports a free and open press, including reports that reflect negatively on the government and country itself, one can actually learn about such unfortunate situations as those which occur to some, not all, but some illegal immigrants.
the fact we are discussing this at all is testimony to the existence of the U.S. and how tall it actually does stand in the world for a number of issues. yes, there are very very bad things our country does, I'd be the first to point that out. but it's NOT all bad and there are a heck of a lot of us that fight tooth and nail to make it a better country.
moreover, the incidents described so far in this thread have mostly pertained to agricultural workers, domestics and other service-oriented sectors. very little has been said about professionals - such as those who graduate from colleges in the U.S., apply for jobs and wind up making a life for themselves instead of returning to their home countries. Ks are notorious for overstaying their student visas, as are a number of other nationalities. because these people work and contribute to society by paying taxes, become members of the community, etc., they don't really receive a lot of press coverage. however, they are out there and they do exist in real numbers. |
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thurst
Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| dporter wrote: |
| Illegal immigrants are treated far worse than most people can imagine. |
how is giving an illegal immigrant millions of dollars in free health care...and then deporting the ILLEGAL immigrant at no cost to him is being treated badly? GTFO with that nonsense.
if he was an uninsured american citizen he'd be given emergency care and thrown out on his ass and his family would have to eat that medical bill.
whether or not illegal immigrants in the US are treated better by the government than E-2 holders in korea may be a argument debate. but i'm pretty sure we can all agree that teachign english in korea is a far better life than the one lived by the average illegal immigrant in the US.
@moosehead:
lol @ the notion that calling someone "white" is offensive, get a grip. i'm black btw, and that's also not an offensive term |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| moosehead wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| madoka wrote: |
For college educated white people on here to claim they know anything about how illegals have it in the U.S. just goes to show how arrogant, stupid, and out of touch they are. |
What exactly did he write that was racist? You really need to check yourself. |
it is not I who needs to check myself - on the contrary -
ironically, it's those who claim not to be racist that are usually the worst.
now, just to keep this as a teaching moment, let's just say someone posted "how ridiculous it would be to defend all those yellow hakwon directors which just proves how arrogant, stupid and out of touch such an individual would be."
do you have even half a sense of how incredibly offensive it is to just use an adjective of color when describing people in terms of personality, or intelligence, or SEC (socio economic status)??
IT IS ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT WHEN USED TO DESCRIBE CAUCAUSIANS AS IT IS PEOPLE OF COLOR.
btw, I find it doubly offensive being of mixed heritage
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Really? Then why haven't you complained once during the hundreds of times it's been used on here. I see people describing themselves as a "whitey" or otherwise using that word regularly on here...and not once have I seen you complain about it. I guess your sensibilities are only engaged when it's people you disagree with. |
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ekul
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Location: [Mod Edit]
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| thurst wrote: |
@moosehead:
lol @ the notion that calling someone "white" is offensive, get a grip. i'm black btw, and that's also not an offensive term |
As soon you you start tagging words on after 'white' or 'black' it starts to become offensive. Describing all ESL teachers as white Caucasian is pretty narrow minded and imo the ignorance alone makes it offensive. It doesn't matter if you're black either. |
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