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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
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Huffdaddy's nearer the mark. Societies have generally treated women badly, to a greater or lesser degree depending on the society, and women's equality is probably something rarely experienced until the last couple of decades, and even then things are not what they could be.
Edit: I just changed Men to Societies, because I don't believe it is a deliberate conspiracy of Men to keep Women down, and most Men were pretty 'kept down' themselves until recent years. |
good points. |
Wait a minute, I'm missing something here. If women are being kept down, and it is not by the men, who is doing it? |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| Wait a minute, I'm missing something here. If women are being kept down, and it is not by the men, who is doing it? |
Society.
Its not a male vs female issue. Its a creation of a social action. Society is not solely determined by one sex over another, but a compelition (?) (bad spelling, oops) of both systems.
(post edit) |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| Bacasper wrote: |
| Wait a minute, I'm missing something here. If women are being kept down, and it is not by the men, who is doing it? |
Nobody is being kept down by anyone. People assume that, because A's are more powerful and richer than B's, A's discriminate against B's.
This kind of 'argument' occurs when one considers only the immediately visible. More worryingly still, no evidence is possible to convince proponents otherwise. This is a malady of our time. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| a mancurian italian wrote: |
Nobody is being kept down by anyone. People assume that, because A's are more powerful and richer than B's, A's discriminate against B's.
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If you don't think women were kept down one way or another prior to recent times you are in some sort of denial. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Wait a minute, I'm missing something here. If women are being kept down, and it is not by the men, who is doing it? |
Society.
Its not a male vs female issue. Its a creation of a social action. Society is not solely determined by one sex over another, but a compelition (?) (bad spelling, oops) of both systems.
(post edit) |
yeah, pretty much |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Summer Wine wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Wait a minute, I'm missing something here. If women are being kept down, and it is not by the men, who is doing it? |
Society.
Its not a male vs female issue. Its a creation of a social action. Society is not solely determined by one sex over another, but a compelition (?) (bad spelling, oops) of both systems.
(post edit) |
yeah, pretty much |
OK, so it is not men and not women, but society? And what is a "compelition?" 
Were these answers supposed to unconfuse me? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
[ And what is a "compelition?"
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I believe it's how they spell 'compilation' in New Zealand these days It is used as a synonym for 'combenition.'  |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| a mancurian italian wrote: |
Nobody is being kept down by anyone. People assume that, because A's are more powerful and richer than B's, A's discriminate against B's.
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If you don't think women were kept down one way or another prior to recent times you are in some sort of denial. |
Well, I did use the present tense ("nobody is being kept down by anyone"). In any event, an absence of discrimination would not mean an absence of male-female economic differences. Such differences largely reflect women's marriage and childbearing patterns. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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My spelling was probably incorrect and for that I apologise, but the word is correct.
Also the spirit of the the word is correct. Men don't sit around discussing how to cause trouble for the women. Ask any married man and I would say most of them in our countries consider the likes and dislikes of thier wives in thier decesions.
Its nice to look at an issue and think you are correct, but its not always that simple.
(Sorry that last statement came out a lot harder than intended)
(post editted) |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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The words of God do not justify cruelty to women
| Former President Jimmy Carter wrote: |
I have been a practising Christian all my life and a deacon and Bible teacher for many years. My faith is a source of strength and comfort to me, as religious beliefs are to hundreds of millions of people around the world.
So my decision to sever my ties with the Southern Baptist Convention, after six decades, was painful and difficult. It was, however, an unavoidable decision when th e convention's leaders, quoting a few carefully selected Bible verses and claiming that Eve was created second to Adam and was responsible for original sin, ordained that women must be "subservient" to their husbands and prohibited from serving as deacons, pastors or chaplains in the military service. This was in conflict with my belief - confirmed in the holy scriptures - that we are all equal in the eyes of God.
This view that women are somehow inferior to men is not restricted to one religion or belief. It is widespread. Women are prevented from playing a full and equal role in many faiths.
Nor, tragically, does its influence stop at the walls of the church, mosque, synagogue or temple. This discrimination, unjustifiably attributed to a Higher Authority, has provided a reason or excuse for the deprivation of women's equal rights across the world for centuries. The male interpretations of religious texts and the way they interact with, and reinforce, traditional practices justify some of the most pervasive, persistent, flagrant and damaging examples of human rights abuses.
etc
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| So my decision to sever my ties with the Southern Baptist Convention, after six decades, was painful and difficult. It was, however, an unavoidable decision when th e convention's leaders, quoting a few carefully selected Bible verses and claiming that Eve was created second to Adam and was responsible for original sin, ordained that women must be "subservient" to their husbands and prohibited from serving as deacons, pastors or chaplains in the military service. This was in conflict with my belief - confirmed in the holy scriptures - that we are all equal in the eyes of God. |
The convention's leader was right. The Bible says these things, but also contradicts itself. So, feel free to cherry pick. I don't see what makes Jimmy's interpretation more valid other than its appeal to a post feminist world. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Why would you think that God would hate you, just because you're a woman?
Yes, the bible says that wives should be subservient to their husbands...
it also says that husbands should LOVE their wives.
(not treat them like doormats)
It does not say that men have the right to beat their wives, treat them like slaves or abuse them in any way. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
It does not say that men have the right to beat their wives, treat them like slaves or abuse them in any way. |
Unless she grabs your mate's balls while you're trying to beat him, then you can cut her hands off. Gotta love Deuteronomy. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
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| So my decision to sever my ties with the Southern Baptist Convention, after six decades, was painful and difficult. It was, however, an unavoidable decision when th e convention's leaders, quoting a few carefully selected Bible verses and claiming that Eve was created second to Adam and was responsible for original sin, ordained that women must be "subservient" to their husbands and prohibited from serving as deacons, pastors or chaplains in the military service. This was in conflict with my belief - confirmed in the holy scriptures - that we are all equal in the eyes of God. |
The convention's leader was right. The Bible says these things, but also contradicts itself. So, feel free to cherry pick. I don't see what makes Jimmy's interpretation more valid other than its appeal to a post feminist world. |
Exactly. Jimmy Carter talks out of his arse. And the fact that he's a believer - and also a Marxist and, of course a sympathizer of Islamic terrorism (offering many a picturesque surmise) - means he should be caged like a predatory beast, in my eyes.
| Some waygoogin wrote: |
Why would you think that God would hate you, just because you're a woman?
Yes, the bible says that wives should be subservient to their husbands...
it also says that husbands should LOVE their wives.
(not treat them like doormats)
It does not say that men have the right to beat their wives, treat them like slaves or abuse them in any way. |
I agree there's a clear distinction between the Qur'aan and the Bible in their views about women, but the Bible, whilst it indeed says "love your wife" also explicitly advocates female subservience in the previous verse. And this is in the New Testament - the nice part.
Obviously, contemporary moral standards evolved independently of - no, in opposition to - scripture. It's high time the Muslim World did the same. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
| My spelling was probably incorrect and for that I apologise, but the word is correct. |
[quote=dictionary.com]No results found for compelition[/quote]
Sorry, I am still having trouble.
Maybe you cold link me to your dictionary. Or try a synonym. Or, you know, any of those other alternate ways in which an ESL teacher should be able to teach students to convey meaning. |
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