Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Janny]

My current contract is up in 6 months. I would love objective input from other people, living the same life as I am right now (Expat English teachers, whoever reads this forum actually...I think Dave's has a good range of personalities and experience)

FACTS:
--36 years old, female, good social life (as I see it, which is all that matters)
--elementary school teaching degree, Canadian
--love my job, no complaints at all, except that I'm over-qualified (ie making my hakwon lots of money since I'm actually a talented teacher and not a university business or history grad)
--great salary, continual raise each year
--still in debt, terrible with money, 2-3 overseas trips per year
--unbelieveably wonderful apartment, about 300,000 won / month for bills
--pet owner
--been in Korea now for 6 years
--3 years teaching experience in Canada '96-'98

DECISION:
Stay in Korea, continue living easy, with the nagging knowledge that I'm wasting my talents. Or go back to Canada to resume my teaching career, with the possibility of more debt, months of boredom living at my parent's, and professional hardship. And who knows if I'll even FIND a job??

I know said "career" is slowly dying the longer I stay here in Asia. But I love my life here. But I feel I'm being...lazy. I'm just afraid, with the economy as it is, that I'll just be back in Korea 6 months later anyway, living in a tiny room "apartment" since I'll lose my current one if I go. I will probably get the same job again, but they will not save this apt for me. It's an expensive loft and they're only keeping it on their roster to keep ME on their payroll. (I've told them past couple years that I'll stay IF I can keep the apartment)

So...what do you think..I don't really like Korea, but there are other things that make it really worthwhile to stay (my job, knowing my way around, Thailand..) But then when I go home, I feel in my gut...ok sweetie...time to come home...*sigh*

[VanIslander]

marry me


(or someone else, you know you want to, it's that time of life, open your eyes, it's the next step... in your heart you know it)

[Scott in Incheon]

Hong Kong NET program for elementary schools is quite a good option. You can make a career out of it...and if you want to move around, there are plenty of international schools to choose from.

[Johnny_Bravo]

Ah Janny, wise decipherer of men (sex and power )

I think subconsciously that VanIslander MAY be on to something.
or not..
(that's up to you to decide)

if I simply read your post at face value, I guess what I'm missing is what is the "upside" of returning to Canada?

You do not note a SINGLE positive.

Ergo, that would make my decision easy - regardless of the fact it's not a perfect situation - very few of those are.

A wise man taught me a long time ago something that I suspect you already know:

life is about tradeoffs.

Unless you can build a compelling case for returning to Canada, it's a one sided argument.

Other than that , since you're good, qualified and experienced, you may want to look into the international school route. The pay will probably be better than here, and you'll have a chance to see/experience the world with at least a little "style" (based on local conditions).

[Tundra_Creature]

Well, if you really want to go back to Canada, there's always teaching in the northern, isolated communities, if you're brave enough. Housing and plane tickets are still paid for you for Christmas and summer and pay is pretty good. But, you can't really take a weekend and go to the 'big city'.

I think you could probably find a job in Canada... it just might not be in the area you want, unfortunately.

But there are always other countries you can go to. Like the Scott is suggesting.

[mises]

I assume you're single.

At your age, your primary concern needs to be how you are going to retire. You need to get hold of your finances, get rid of your debt and start planning for the end of your working life.

If that is in Canada, then so be it. If Korea (or elsewhere) that's fine too. As a 'trained' teacher, you can work in international schools all over the world and earn a fine income. There is no reason to be in a hakwon.

The economy is ass in Canada. Probably will be for 5-10 years. This means you have strongly diminished employment prospects (even in public service). Cuts are coming, all across the board.

My advice: 1) Stay in Korea 2) Aggressively pay down debt and start saving 3) seek more permanent and higher paying employment at an international school in another country (or in Korea). To properly save for retirement you need a very good package. You cannot depend on CPP to save your ass when you're 60 and not wanting to work. If you are willing to accept a life just above poverty, and you retire at 60-65, you need 30k x expected lifespan after retirement. If that is 20 years then you need a hell of a lot of money. You don't (I assume) own a house so a reverse mortgage is out of the question. You should be saving at least 25% of your take home income. Wherever you can do that, stay there.

[Johnny_Bravo]

I'm going to take a small quibble with mises, THOUGH I would agree that you need to retire your debt ASAP.

it's not that what she says is unwise in any way, in fact it's the opposite, the advice is sound

YET

I take issue with people suggesting that a 35 year old should spend the next thirty years of their short life worrying about what life will be after 65.

Do you know what life will be after 65?
it will SUCK. You will be old. You will be a geezer, and the golden years mean you will be taken unwanted golden showers all over yourself.

There's nothing we can really do about it, except make peace with the fact, that it will suck, and THEN we will die. (kind of like life sucks and then you die, except old life sucks even more and then you die)

While I fully support taking active steps to making it suck perhaps a litle less, I have to take full issue with wasting away potential fun in the last few good "young"(er) decades one has left.

It just doesn't make sense to me. What makes sense is maximizing your fun while young without being stupidly irresponsible.

[mises]

[AgentM]

I second mises on this one. Stay in Korea, especially since you seem to like it there! As has already been mentioned, the economy here in Canada sucks right now. Also, the availability of teaching jobs here has never been great from my understanding, even prior to the recession. You're better off staying in Korea, perhaps living a bit more frugally and paying off your debts.

I plan on heading over to Korea myself after I grad next year! Hopefully for a few years if it works out, hell I may make a career out of it if I like things enough.

[digsydinner]

why not think a little bigger...

obviously you've got a good repoire here in korea...and you seem like you're a talented teacher. why not leverage that?

all of us know the teaching in hakwon path is a dead end... here's what i would do:

1) continue to work for another year or two...focusing on paying down that debt (i sound like suze orman...i know)
2) on the side, research other sources of income such as business ventures..ie. starting your own hakwon. network with other seasoned professionals in this industry (not your average turds here on Dave's)
3) seriously think about getting married or having a life partner to pursue your goals together (not sure if you're into korean men, but getting married to a korean will definitely open up more opportunities)

another option would be to get more education/certifications and go the university route

[Countrygirl]

I don't understand why anyone qualified to be a public school teacher would work at a hogwan longer than 2 years. If I had a B Ed. I'd be getting international schools on my resume. (and I'm thinking of getting a B Ed...how crazy is that??) Is it that difficult to be a public school teacher in Canada or at International Schools? If you don't start, it's not going to get any easier later on.

And if you are not saving the money from your job for your future than you are wasting your education from my point of view. Your "real" teaching career will not start until you work someplace worth putting on the resume.

I'm 36 as well and I understand the desire to live abroad. 36 is not 26 and it is time to think about the future. Your feeling is right. If you don't like the option of trying to find a job back in Canada, find another option that you do like.

[PatrickGHBusan]

I will toss my two cents in this debate...I hope it helps or provides helpful information for the OP.

I was a full-time certified teacher in Canada before I came to Korea in 1997. I decided to take a sabbatical from my work there and teach abroad. I landed in Korea with the mindset of staying for a year, two at the max. I, like many others had a sizeable student loan as well.

I ended up staying 11 years.

I did get married just under a 18 months after I arrived but I know of many Teachers who are not married and thrived in Korea to then move on to other jobs. I know others who stayed put are still in the ROK and have little to no retirement worries due to smart planning. there I agree with Mises: you need a plan.


I started out working at a Hakwon and then moved to teaching Public School and finally University. In each case I accumulated valuable experience that opened doors. After a couple of years in Korea I started a consulting business thrived and that I still run today. In 2008 I switched over to a government job that was to be in Seoul but hat eventually, through personal setbacks and a new offer led me to re-settle in Canada into a government job for the same department. This job was open to me specifically because of the experience, expertise and references I had accumulated in my time in Korea. As I said it is about what you do.

My current position is tenured/permanent and has me traveling to Seoul and Tokyo on a regular basis. I got this offer 3 years ago through contacts and networking. there kurtz is right, you need to network to advance.

What did I get from my time in Korea (professionally, personally and financially speaking)?

I became fluent in a new language, this opened numerous doors in Korea and then here in Canada.

I paid off my loan in under 2 years.

I then managed to buy a house in Canada that we rented for nearly 10 years while we lived in Korea. That house was paid off 8 years and we made a profit off of it for the last 2 years.

We bought an appartment in Busan which we then sold with a tidy profit.

We accumulated savings and invested that disposable income in ways that would not have been possible as a full-time teacher in Canada due to taxes and costs.

Due to my work in Korea and my activities I accumlated a wealth of experience that opened numerous job possibilities.

This happened because of what I put into my time in Korea. If you go to any country and sit on your hands while waiting to go back to "the world" you will go back there with nothing much to show for it.

Some people have also become career educators in Korea and have moved beyind the entry-level job that is the barn door of ESL.

In short, its all up to you really and your attidude will determine much of the result.

If you work in education in your home country your time in Korea can be extremely beneficial professionally...if you apply yourself.

How does this relate to the OP?

She said she has been here 6 years but still ha sa debt. That is not a good thing. I know its hard but OP get rid of the debt. That will free up income for savings and investment and leave enough to travel if you want to.

You can earn VERY good money working for Hakwons. You just have to pick the Hakwon properly. You can also move beyond teaching and strive for a head teachers position or an academic supervisor position.

I agree international schools are a good bet with your qualifications.

You are at 36 at a crossroads of sorts. One thing you cannot do is stay on the lazy path (as you called yourself somewhat lazy with the confort level you have). You have to choose a plan and work towards it.

You can work Hakwons for the next 10 years and come out of it debt free and very well set up financially. to do this you have to budget, aggressively pay off the debt fast and invest smart. Get a meeting with a financial planner, figure out your options. If you save at a rate of 20 000 Canadian Dollars per year (possible without debt and if you find the proper positions in Korea) and do so for 10 years you are talking about 200 000 dollars of investment and savings capital if you ust stick it in your socks. If you invest, you will grow that number easily and can look to retirment far sooner than 60.

The retirement scenario presented by Mises is good but it does not account for changing demographics in countries like Canada where there are fewer workers paying into retirement funds and health care than there were when her relatives retired. That means people will mostly have to either invest smarter or keep working longer.

I will also disagree with the you get old and it sucks rant. That is simplistic. Many people work beyond 60 and lead healthy and active lives that do not "suck". Health later starts with health when you are young...go all out and you burn out and end up peeing all over yourself...

Play the game smart and barring unforseen accidents (hey thats life) you can live healthy.

I for one coudl retire NOW if I wanted. We have enough savings and capital to do so. I choose to work because I like tobe productive. I have zero plans to stop working at a set age like 55 or 60 (I am not 40 yet).

So OP: get your butt in gear and plan. That is the only answer that will lead to success.

Best of luck and feel free to pm me or email me if you need advice.

Cheers

[Kimbop]

Just think: in four years, you'll be 40, old, fat, childless, and unmarried! Perhaps you'll still be babysitting kids in korea, living in a small 300 sq foot apartment! And you'll be earning 30,000 Canadian dollars a year!

Or you can return to an area in Canada where teachers are in demand, and start a real life. 36 and still in debt? Considering moving in with your parents?? If you have a BED, why are you NOT working at an int'l school?

You don't want to know what I think. But you sound like you're 21 -- NOT 36.

[mises]

An "unbelievably wonderful apartment" is just normal for a 30-something professional. Do not use your hakwon peers digs as a guide to how the middle class in the East or West lives. At home, rents are falling. You'll be surprised at what you can get for a grand or so a month in rent now.

[Draz]