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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Sweden is a surprise, but come to think of it I have heard before that they're a redneck out-of the way homogenous nation that has evolved an elevated sense of their own cultural superiority, coupled with some sort of master race philosophy. |
See? Exactly what I said. When we read of this stuff, the immediate response of the 'one world' crowd is the label that state uniquely racist "red necked" etc.
The truth is less flattering to our species. Our 'own' is our family. We naturally defend and support the home team. That is how it is, how it was and how it always will be.
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| Man, if it was up to me I'd take all the people on the planet, shake them all around in a big jar a few times and plant them all randomly over the earth again. |
And they'd then quickly find people who look like them, worship the same imaginary friend and speak the same language and group together and immediately come into conflict with other groups not like themselves. We are a tribal species. It is how we evolved.
Like my favorite t-shirt says:
The athletic team from my general geographic region is better than the athletic team from your general geographic region. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
Man, if it was up to me I'd take all the people on the planet, shake them all around in a big jar a few times and plant them all randomly over the earth again. that way everyone would be in a foreign country and have to learn to accept other humans- instead of sticking in their narrow-minded territorial groups and pointing at whoever is the odd one out. |
God, what a boring world that would be!
And a McDonald's on every corner to boot!
Last edited by bacasper on Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
If the Irish don't want the immigrants and don't accept them |
Over the past several centuries, and during many times of troubles, famine and political perscution, Irish people have been emigrating worldwide in vast numbers, being accepted and welcomed wherever they have washed ashore. The Irish diaspora is in the multimillions.
so why should it be that when it is their turn to recieve refugees, the disadvantaged and immigrants from less fortunate countries, that they can't bring themselves to do it?
The Irish worldview is much the same as the Korean one. "We have been persecuted, others tried to invade our country. We got rid of them all because we are heroic, a united people, a tribe, with one language. A very old and superior culture. You can come and visit, but be sure not to stay here. We don't really accept outsiders. By the way can you sort me out a greencard? i want to live in your country".
Narrow-minded, homogenous, ethnocentric, overly nationalistic countries that have victim complexes but think they are better than everyone else on some level, yet have been spoiled rotten by the international community such as ireland and Korea need to change their attitudes and join the 21st century.
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Sorry but this is just totally wrong. Irish people are if anything very welcoming to outsiders. Don't confuse what those wankers up in the North of the country and Irish people in general. Maybe you need to read up a little about Ireland's history before you go off making such sweeping generalizations in future about you think Ireland or it's people represent. |
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tfunk
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Personally, I am financially wary of Nigerians. This is based upon my own experiences and those of my family and friends. I think it is reasonable to form a correlation based upon one's own experiences, although I wouldn't generalize my own experiences into a universal principle...yet. |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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From todays Irish times:
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Racist attacks on Roma are latest low in North's intolerant history
Thu, Jun 18, 2009
ANALYSIS: Can recent violence towards immigrants in Belfast be linked to the BNP�s success in European elections, writes PETER GEOGHEGAN
WITH ITS new, purpose-built Chinese centre, popular Asian supermarket and plethora of speciality shops, the Ormeau Road is Belfast�s most visibly diverse and multi-ethnic neighbourhood.
On sunny days, nearby Ormeau Park resonates with a myriad of accents and languages, but yesterday summer revellers were nowhere to be seen. Instead, as the rain poured down, the air was filled with the sound of children crying and car boots slamming as the O-Zone leisure complex became impromptu home to more than 100 beleaguered Romanians, members of that country�s Roma minority. These are the latest victims of racist violence in Belfast, living proof that while Northern Ireland may be �post-conflict� it is not yet post-intolerance.
Before being forced to flee their homes, the Romanians, some 20 families in all, had lived in the affluent (and reasonably mixed) Lisburn Road area of south Belfast. It was here that police received their first report of an attack on one of their properties last Thursday, with further racist incidents the following night making local news bulletins.
Sympathetic residents responded by organising an anti-racist rally on Monday night, but this show of solidarity was met by local youths throwing bottles and chanting slogans in support of the British far-right group Combat 18. Less than 24 hours later, the Romanian families were sheltering in a church hall near Queen�s University, having spent the previous night all huddled together in one house, genuinely fearful for their lives.
Shocking as these events are � and even British prime minister Gordon Brown has weighed in with condemnation � where pernicious racism is concerned, Belfast has a record.
In the winter of 2003, Chinese homes in the Loyalist Donegall Road area of south Belfast suffered a sustained series of attacks. This grizzly episode, which included the circulation of a leaflet to schools and homes warning of the dangers of �the yellow peril�, led to many leaving their homes and to the BBC bestowing on Belfast the unwanted sobriquet of �race hate capital of Europe�.
Far from being isolated incidents, these attacks set the tone for a sustained rise in racist violence. The PSNI recorded a two-fold increase in manifestations of racism between 2003 and 2007, with south Belfast recording the worst reported levels in Northern Ireland (over 125 racist incidents in 2006-2007 alone). Although figures for racist violence have continued to climb, in the last two years the increase has been markedly less steep. The issue of racism has, until now, been out of both the local and national press for some time.
The lack of any substantial far-right presence has been held up as proof that, far from being the most racist city in Europe, Belfast is now an accepting, welcoming place for migrants. Events of the last few days have shattered this myth. Only a few weeks after the success of the British National Party (BNP) in the European elections, youths on Belfast streets are shouting fascist slogans and attacking immigrants.
Coincidence? Seems unlikely.
In targeting the Roma, these latest attacks have also hit at an easily identifiable and particularly vulnerable group in Northern Irish society, and one which is currently suffering increased persecution throughout Europe.
While there is no evidence of the involvement of neo-Nazi groups such as the National Front or Combat 18 in the latest attacks, that pages from Mein Kampf preceded the bottles through the Roma homes suggests that far-right ideology is gaining a foothold in the minds of disaffected white youth.
Links between the far right and loyalist paramilitaries in Northern Ireland have often been overstated, and the veracity of denials of involvement issued by both the UVF and UDA have been widely accepted. Nevertheless, Jackie McDonald, de facto head of the UDA, was refused entry to the O-Zone complex yesterday and was forced to issue his condemnation from the rain-sodden car park.
McDonald would have been better speaking directly to the perpetrators of the attacks, youths from the nearby Village area, a run-down network of loyalist terraces where unemployment is high, union flags limp from lampposts and faded red, white and blue paint adorns every kerbstone. With an abundance of rental accommodation (a byproduct of the Northern Ireland Office rolling out Margaret Thatcher�s �right to buy� policy in the 1980s), the Village has been very popular with new migrants coming to Belfast, particularly those from eastern Europe.
In recent years, racist incidents and protests against �drug-dealing� eastern Europeans have not been uncommon in the Village. However, tensions ratcheted up further earlier this year following bloody exchanges between local gangs and Polish hooligans before and after a World Cup qualifier between Northern Ireland and Poland.
In the wake of this violence, many Poles were forced to leave the area.
That youths from such areas are turning on a nearby Roma population is both shameful and all too predictable in a society where violence still plays a major role in some sections.
If there are nuggets of comfort to be taken, it is the unanimous condemnation that has quickly followed and the decision by Minister for Social Development Margaret Ritchie to rehouse the displaced Roma.
Many have said they would rather return home, an understandable reaction under the circumstances.
Peter Geoghegan is a writer and journalist based in Belfast. His book on multiculturalism and sectarianism in Northern Ireland will be published in spring 2010 by the Irish Academic Press
� 2009 The Irish Times
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0618/1224249058810.html |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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interesting article there Blade...
| Mises wrote: |
| We are entering a 10 year long economic downturn (prolly 8 years left). These events are going to increase dramatically. |
Not also that there is a new wave of attacks on Indians in Australia.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8100956.stm |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
interesting article there Blade...
| Mises wrote: |
| We are entering a 10 year long economic downturn (prolly 8 years left). These events are going to increase dramatically. |
Not also that there is a new wave of attacks on Indians in Australia.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8100956.stm |
And what do you think of that? How does it reflect on Australia? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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And what do you think of that? How does it reflect on Australia?[/quote]
What are you trying to get me to say Mises? that its an anomaly that in no way reflects badly on the country??
I'm not demonising whole countries, I'm saying that they have cultural attitudes and tendencies that generally leave them prone to racism and xenophobia. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:40 am Post subject: |
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If there were enough educational resources/schools the admissions people wouldn't have to choose. It would be a much worse indicator of racism if there actually were enough places in schools and black children still had trouble getting them, but that isn't the case. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
Whatever emotional baggage you want to apply to this issue is irrelevant. We are entering a 10 year long economic downturn (prolly 8 years left). These events are going to increase dramatically. And not just in states that you'd think:
http://www.thelocal.se/19598/20090522/
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'Lynch mob' prompts refugees to flee town in northern Sweden
Nearly half of the predominantly Iraqi-refugees residing in V�nn�s in northern Sweden have decided to permanently move out of the area after being terrorized by what police called �a lynch mob� in early May. |
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But the move was criticized by police, who characterized the decision to evacuate around 40 refugees as �significantly more drastic� than necessary, adding that it complicated the police�s investigation into the incident.
�We don�t believe this is a racially motivated dispute, but rather a disagreement between a number of young people, some of whom live in the refugee building and others from the area,� said local police commander Uno Nilsson to SvD the at the time of the incident.
According to the V�sterbotten-Kuriren newspaper, the dispute began when a group of local youths confronted a refugee boy about the assault of a local girl which took place Tuesday night.
The initial school yard confrontation, during which the refugee boy was pressed for information rather than accused of involvement in the assault, but was also allegedly pushed to the ground, escalated during the course of the week through subsequent run ins, culminating in the weekend's disturbances. |
Doesn't sound as bad as the racial attacks in Belfast: the latter sound like nasty, deliberate, politically motivated intimidation, whereas the attacks in Sweden were the result of a string of incidents the first of which, at least, was this assault on a local girl by some or one of the refugees. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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'Romanian gypsies beware beware. Loyalist C18 are coming to beat you like a baiting bear'
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| Text message sent by Combat 18 in Northern Ireland last week Belfast was shocked by last week's assaults on Roma families. But in 'the Village', the loyalist enclave where anti-Romanian sentiment is strongest, even those who condemn the violence are bitterly opposed to immigration. |
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Combat 18's message, broadcast by text and email all over Northern Ireland last week, was hate-filled and menacing:
"Romanian gypsies beware beware
"Loyalist C18 are coming to beat you like a baiting bear
"Stay out of South Belfast and stay out of sight
"And then youse will be alright
"Get the boat and don't come back
"There is no black in the Union Jack
"Loyalist C18 'whatever it takes'."
The rhyming racist warning has been picked up on mobile phones and computers across loyalist areas of the north of Ireland since the start of last week when the province hit the world headlines again for all the wrong reasons.
This weekend 110 Romanians, including many small children, some as young as six weeks, are under armed police guard at a secret location in Belfast. Seven days ago the 20 families were driven out of several properties on the edge of the city's university district, victims of a racist gang which repeatedly attacked their homes over a number of days. Many of the immigrants, almost all exclusively from the Roma community, have said they want to return home rather than stay in a city being branded as the racist capital of Europe. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| blade wrote: |
| Irish people are if anything very welcoming to outsiders. |
There are plenty of people in the "Village" who, while condemning violence, are openly hostile to immigrants.
Even along the prosperous Lisburn Road, with its restaurants, art galleries, organic cafes and boutiques, attitudes towards the Roma immigrants are negative; it is not difficult to find people who openly admit they do not like the eastern Europeans in their midst.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/21/race-northern-ireland-romanian-gypsies
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| Maybe you need to read up a little about Ireland's history before you go off making such sweeping generalizations in future about you think Ireland or it's people represent. |
Since the middle of the decade, foreign nationals from across the world who have moved into the area have been the target of racists. First, it was the Chinese whose homes were attacked, then the Poles and Slovakians, and latterly the Roma. At the end of 2004 there were an estimated 453 race hate crimes a year reported to the PSNI across Northern Ireland; in the past 12 months that figure has risen to 1,000.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/21/race-northern-ireland-romanian-gypsies |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| blade wrote: |
| Irish people are if anything very welcoming to outsiders. |
There are plenty of people in the "Village" who, while condemning violence, are openly hostile to immigrants.
Even along the prosperous Lisburn Road, with its restaurants, art galleries, organic cafes and boutiques, attitudes towards the Roma immigrants are negative; it is not difficult to find people who openly admit they do not like the eastern Europeans in their midst.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/21/race-northern-ireland-romanian-gypsies
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This article refers to the North of Ireland.
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| Maybe you need to read up a little about Ireland's history before you go off making such sweeping generalizations in future about you think Ireland or it's people represent. |
Since the middle of the decade, foreign nationals from across the world who have moved into the area have been the target of racists. First, it was the Chinese whose homes were attacked, then the Poles and Slovakians, and latterly the Roma. At the end of 2004 there were an estimated 453 race hate crimes a year reported to the PSNI across Northern Ireland; in the past 12 months that figure has risen to 1,000.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/21/race-northern-ireland-romanian-gypsies[/quote]
This article also refers to the North of Ireland and not Ireland as a whole. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| blade wrote: |
This article also refers to the North of Ireland and not Ireland as a whole. |
Weak, very weak...
"Guiness is brewed in Dublin. How then can it be called Irish? it is made in Dublin and not Ireland as a whole".
Fact is, Northern ireland is a part...of Ireland..and what happens there reflects badly on the whole country.
I will agree with you that racist attacks seem to be rarer in republican communities. The city appears to have replaced sectarianism with racism- a suspicion of anyone different.
Which leaves you pointing the finger at Loyalists I suppose. I may be inclined to agree: perhaps I was overgeneralising.
But then you still have to explain why black schoolchildren are excluded in the south?
To me it seems easy to figure out. You have one of the most homogenous countries in Europe that is totally not used to diversity, an isolated island that has not had the cosmopolitain history of the mainland. Its a bit like the hermit kingdom korea- cut off from mainland asia and effectively the rest of the world for a long time, evolving defensive and protective cultural racial mythologies.
Well now the age of global travel and jetliners is here. Anyone who harbours prejudices about people from the other side of the planet is going to have to change how they think pretty fast. |
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