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ekul
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Location: [Mod Edit]
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 Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| There are nearly an infinite number of ways to compare complex beasts like operating systems. I'm going to skip low-level issues, like comparing driver architectures. Most people just don't care about things like who has the superior kernel. People care far more about the parts they see and work with, so that is what I'm going to deal with here. |
That pretty much sums up a mac users attitude. Personally if it was just the UI and usability that was important then most likely some custom build of linux would come out on top. Yet underneath the bonnet of linux is a mishmash of patches and fixes, making it really hard to work with.
I've read plenty about Windows 7 and people are really making it out to be the bees knees. I'm not a fan of Vista at all, seems clunky and hogs resources. However I'm not swayed by an operating system that just has a bunch of bells and whistles.
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| but tons of other small and annoying windows operations that are either outdated or null with the Mac OS. |
Some examples would be nice. I know the things that annoy me about windows but I'd like to hear what exactly constitutes 'tons' of annoyances. |
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swigs
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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I'm by no means a expert on computers or operating systems, but I've a tech enthusiast and I'll go ahead and make a list of the reasons why Windows bugs me.
1. The CEO of the company is a Buisness man. (I'll explain why this sucks in number 2)
2. The interfaces of their programs are changed for no apparent reason. (I think this has something to do with the CEO being a Businessman and not a programmer, Mac OS X's interfaces and programs are streamlined in a logical order, and things are not placed as randomly as they are in Windows)
3. To many alert boxes (Which is worth of a ton of annoyances)
4. System maintenance is a pain, and not nessecary with Mac OS X.
5. Ugly interface.
6. Usually more instability with programs that require more attention. Mac OS X can usually do more with less hardware.
7. Viruses
8. Better Search in Mac OS X through local and networks
9. The hardware configuration that you buy lasts more than a year. (With Macs the software developers know what your hardware configuration is, so they can program for it more specifically creating better efficiency)
10. Better transitions with technology. (32bit to 64bit has been seemless with out the user having to do a bunch of research and choose which OS)
11. Only one OS version at a time. (Mac does not have more than one OS version to choose from, all OS X have tons of functions built in. Windows users have to choose from Home to Ultimate and they are also burdened with having to choose between 32bit and 64 bit, while Mac OS X is compatible with both with out having to download a bunch of drivers)
12. Mac OS X includes high quality software such as Garageband, iPhoto, iMovie, and more that can meet the average users needs for basic creativity apps.
13. Mac OS X already includes the drivers for PDF, among many other files, so you don't have to download them off the web.
14. Mac OS X makes it easier to get around using spaces, which allows you to have multiple desktop spaces running at the same time. (Vista might have this, but it seems more streamlined in Mac)
15. Mac offers more frequent small updates that makes transition easier on the end user.
These are just a few of the reasons why I think there are a ton of annoyances with Windows. I used to wonder why Apple users made their fuss about 'lower end' systems. But after buying a Mac laptop three years ago to supplement my windows desktop I changed my mind for good. After using my Mac and upgrading the OS with NO problems what so ever, I understood why Macs are superior. Hardware specs don't tell the whole story, the OS is what allows the hardware to function, and Macs function better and more efficient.
I'm not saying Macs are for everyone, and Windows is complete trash. It's just for me personally, I'll probably never buy Windows again, or MS Office while Macintosh offers more for less. If you include all of the functions that is built into the Mac OS your actually saving hundreds of dollars compared to a Windows system. You say you can buy a defragging program, or a music program, but with Mac OS X (For a cheaper price) you don't need to. And if your a hardcore gamer Windows is of course for you, at least at this point. |
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blackjack
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| swigs wrote: |
I'm by no means a expert on computers or operating systems, but I've a tech enthusiast and I'll go ahead and make a list of the reasons why Windows bugs me.
1. The CEO of the company is a Buisness man. (I'll explain why this sucks in number 2)
2. The interfaces of their programs are changed for no apparent reason. (I think this has something to do with the CEO being a Businessman and not a programmer, Mac OS X's interfaces and programs are streamlined in a logical order, and things are not placed as randomly as they are in Windows)
It doesn't seem random to me, the times I have used a mac i have never been able to do simple things that I could on a mac. I guess It is what you are used to
3. To many alert boxes (Which is worth of a ton of annoyances)
alert boxes are there for a reason, if you are a home user that never installs programs then they hardly ever pop up. plus it's a simple matter to turn them off
4. System maintenance is a pain, and not nessecary with Mac OS X.
What system maintenance, are you referring to defraging? If so It very rarely needs to be done, esp if you are simply a typical homeuser that doesn't install and uninstall programs all the time. When it does need doing then it's relatively simple. There are disadvantages to having the defrag going all the time
5. Ugly interface.
personal preference and has no place in a comparison of OSs
6. Usually more instability with programs that require more attention. Mac OS X can usually do more with less hardware.
A typical user that installs tried and tested software, doesn't muck around with betas and alphas almost never have crashes (and please don't say apples never crash).
7. Viruses
Never had one, yes they exist and yes it is a disadvantage
8. Better Search in Mac OS X through local and networks
Have you tried vista search?
9. The hardware configuration that you buy lasts more than a year. (With Macs the software developers know what your hardware configuration is, so they can program for it more specifically creating better efficiency)
I have a 3-4 year old p4 that runs vista fine, doesn't run all the latest games fine but generally runs fine
10. Better transitions with technology. (32bit to 64bit has been seemless with out the user having to do a bunch of research and choose which OS)
A typical user does not do a bunch of research, they walk into a computer staore and buys what the salesperson tells them to just like with a mac
11. Only one OS version at a time. (Mac does not have more than one OS version to choose from, all OS X have tons of functions built in. Windows users have to choose from Home to Ultimate and they are also burdened with having to choose between 32bit and 64 bit, while Mac OS X is compatible with both with out having to download a bunch of drivers)
This has pros and cons less decisions and less flexibility
12. Mac OS X includes high quality software such as Garageband, iPhoto, iMovie, and more that can meet the average users needs for basic creativity apps.
Windows has an equivalent for most of these, plus add in office and you're golden. Plus the freeware available for windows is staggering
13. Mac OS X already includes the drivers for PDF, among many other files, so you don't have to download them off the web.
yeah so
14. Mac OS X makes it easier to get around using spaces, which allows you to have multiple desktop spaces running at the same time. (Vista might have this, but it seems more streamlined in Mac)
don't know what spaces is
15. Mac offers more frequent small updates that makes transition easier on the end user.
I have three computers one running windows 95  (an old laptop from 95) one xp (an old desktop from 2005) and one vista (this year), flicking between the three and I have no problems. And for a basic user i.e one that opens word documents, sends emails and surfs there is not really any differences between the systems
These are just a few of the reasons why I think there are a ton of annoyances with Windows. I used to wonder why Apple users made their fuss about 'lower end' systems. But after buying a Mac laptop three years ago to supplement my windows desktop I changed my mind for good. After using my Mac and upgrading the OS with NO problems what so ever, I understood why Macs are superior. Hardware specs don't tell the whole story, the OS is what allows the hardware to function, and Macs function better and more efficient.
I'm not saying Macs are for everyone, and Windows is complete trash. It's just for me personally, I'll probably never buy Windows again, or MS Office while Macintosh offers more for less. If you include all of the functions that is built into the Mac OS your actually saving hundreds of dollars compared to a Windows system. You say you can buy a defragging program, or a music program, but with Mac OS X (For a cheaper price) you don't need to.
why buy a defrag program there is one built into windows and there are plenty of freeware programs built in. For every built in function that a mac has there is a built in or freeware equivalent in windows.
The only program you need to buy with windows is office (well don't need to buy but ???) and most mac users use office as well
And if your a hardcore gamer Windows is of course for you, at least at this point. |
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swigs
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| This has pros and cons less decisions and less flexibility |
You bring up some valid points blackjack, but there is no benefit to the consumer to have multiple choices between the same version of the OS in most cases. I believe that is another sign that the CEO is a businessman and not a computer man. With Mac OS X you are getting the most advanced version of the OS no matter what. It's pointless for Windows to offer different versions that have disabled functions. It's the little things like that with windows that tick me off.
The comparisons between the versions are lame.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-vista/compare-editions/default.aspx |
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Cordova
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="swigs"]I'm by no means a expert on computers or operating systems, but I've a tech enthusiast and I'll go ahead and make a list of the reasons why Windows bugs me.
I don't disagree with you, but you have to realize that most working stiffs work at places that use Windows. Most people aren't techies. They go with what they know.
I bought MS office because it's what I have used for awhile. Yeah, it's not perfection.
And I don't buy into this all things Apple crap anymore. Soon, they will be eclipsed (My iPod touch 2nd gen OS 3.0) is already clunky. People that worship apple stuff are like the people who had to have a Tickle me Elmo or a Furby.
Not only that, prices will be falling in the next couple of months as the competition heats up. |
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ekul
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Location: [Mod Edit]
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Tell me again that apple isn't run by business men.
They have issued a statement saying the Pre should not be hooked up to iTunes and basically said they will hard code it into the next batch of connectors.
The new Macbook Pros are just re-branded Macbooks. The 13inch is just a macbook with a few new features. The 15inch has actually lost features. Most of all the batteries are non removable. To get a replacement you have to pay apple $129. |
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swigs
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Tell me again that apple isn't run by business men.
They have issued a statement saying the Pre should not be hooked up to iTunes and basically said they will hard code it into the next batch of connectors.
The new Macbook Pros are just re-branded Macbooks. The 13inch is just a macbook with a few new features. The 15inch has actually lost features. Most of all the batteries are non removable. To get a replacement you have to pay apple $129. |
The CEO of a company means a lot. For much of the 90's Apple was run by a ex-Pepsi man, and that is when Apple was somewhat crappy. Now that Jobs is back, whom practically introduced the PC to the world, apple is back. This does not mean the company does not do business or have business men working for them, but it's not at the integral core of the company. Since Job has been back the company seems more focused on innovation then profit margins when compared to MS.
Apple is not perfect, but the trade offs for me are a no-brainier. The new batteries have a longer life than what any Windows based laptop can offer. And part of that is not just because of the battery design, but also the OS architecture is just more energy efficient. If you ran Vista or Windows 7 on a new Mac book the battery would not last as long.
You also left out the fact that the new apple batteries have life spans that last over three times as long.
Apples good at listening to their customers and I expect to see the expansion card slot back by early '10 (or something to replace it), but it's on the 17inch model still.
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And I don't buy into this all things Apple crap anymore. Soon, they will be eclipsed (My iPod touch 2nd gen OS 3.0) is already clunky. People that worship apple stuff are like the people who had to have a Tickle me Elmo or a Furby.
Not only that, prices will be falling in the next couple of months as the competition heats up. |
Please don't tell me you just compared Apple to a furby, do you know how absurd that is?
Apple has either re-invented or made popular the following markets:
GUI
PC
Smart Phone
PDA
Mp3 Player
There were versions of all of these products before, but Apple is known for either brining them fully to the market, or completely reinventing them.
Also, lets not forget that it was Bill Gates who was hired as a programmer on one of Apples first GUIs. Gates essentially took what they were working on and turned it into another business model. Apple lost the lawsuit that Microsoft stole from them because it was the scientist and developers at Xerox whom developed the GUI. But many of those scientist and developers were hired by Apple, giving them a tad bit more legitimacy than Microsoft. When Gates was Microsoft's CEO through they 90's they were obviously the superior product, as Jobs was fired by apple during that time. But once Gates retired and Ballmer took over notable changes in the Windows development started to happen, most noticeably the lack of them. While on the other hand Apple rehired Jobs as its CEO and started to go back to it's early days of innovation. Some might find it hard to believe that one person can make such a change, but CEO's have a lot of power.
Also how is the iTouch already clunky? There is nothing on the market with a similar sized screen and wifi capabilities? The itouch is known as one of the slimmest mp3 players on the market. The thing is basically just one big screen. |
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Cordova
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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I guess my point is that yes, the iPod Touch is a sexy aerodynamic piece of technology with Wi-Fi but so what? I have a cheap Sony MyLo with Wi-Fi. And why do I need to have WiFi wherever I go? It's all hype & I bought into it when I got my 16 GB touch. I'll take a $400 ASUS netbook over the ever so stylish cast aluminum Mac Book Air at $2500.
The Furby analogy referred to the frequent fads that occur in the market in case you didn't get it. Similar to the jerk offs that spent premiums on the Toyota Prius to show the rest of us that they cared more about global warming.
Apple is overpriced crap. I 'll go with my inferior Cowon any day. Someday you'll learn. |
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swigs
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Cordova wrote: |
I guess my point is that yes, the iPod Touch is a sexy aerodynamic piece of technology with Wi-Fi but so what? I have a cheap Sony MyLo with Wi-Fi. And why do I need to have WiFi wherever I go? It's all hype & I bought into it when I got my 16 GB touch. I'll take a $400 ASUS netbook over the ever so stylish cast aluminum Mac Book Air at $2500.
The Furby analogy referred to the frequent fads that occur in the market in case you didn't get it. Similar to the jerk offs that spent premiums on the Toyota Prius to show the rest of us that they cared more about global warming.
Apple is overpriced crap. I 'll go with my inferior Cowon any day. Someday you'll learn. |
The moment I start to perceive Apple as overpriced as Microsoft I'll maybe reconsider. Although Apple has had a past of overcharging the the 90's, recently the competition can not keep up with their pricing.
1. You can't find a comparable laptop for the price with the included software and hardware.
2. Nothing comparable to the Ipod in that price range, IMO.
3. Macbook Airs now start at 1,500 (You get what you pay for with Asus, 10 year old technology) With the Macbook Air you can actually do modern computing tasks. Such as photo shop, or other similar creative tasks. But you can get the new Macbook with quality modern hardware for less than 1k. Mine's lasted me for more than 3 years, something I doubt an Asus would last since the tech is already 10 years old.
4. Your supporting a western company that has higher salaries to pay. (That's one of the reasons why I also shop at American Apparel, to support non child labor and just Western production in general. As Jon Stwert says about America, "We don't do production, all we do is consume, if you take that away we're Poland") (And yes I'm aware some of the manufacturing is still done in China and Asia)
5. Even if it's a Western company, the competition can't create products with similar value at the same price. Not even the Pre or Nokia was able to build a phone in a similar price bracket with comparable features.
6. Your Ipod does more than wi-fi, with the thousands of apps, it's connected to the world at large. You can download thousands of different books on the go, or download the latest news to read when your not in a wi-fi zone. What other devices do that for free?
7. You can't call Apple 'overpriced' when there is nothing in the price range that compares. Sure Asus might have some tech that is around 1/3 the price, but the specs are often less than 1/3 of the performance.
And I got the furby analogy, just thought it was way off base. Remember it was Apple who created the idea of using different style fonts on a computer. Why would I want to support an Asian company that uses ten year old technology and rips ideas from other companies with little to no innovation? I don't think I would enjoy buying old technology at a new retail price. (And I'm a thrifty person, whom reuses old tech and clothing when possible) So if anything it's Asus whom is overpriced and possibly just a fad. The net books they sell should be no more than 200 most of the time. |
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registered
Joined: 06 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:07 am Post subject: Best legit MS office deal. |
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+1 for open office.
If you really need MS office, the best offer is this
http://www.microsoft.com/student/discounts/theultimatesteal-us/default.aspx
Office ultimate 2007, totally legit, but you need to be a student, or have friend/family member with a valid uni. email.
I bought office this way last year ( through the canadian version). |
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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:56 am Post subject: |
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[img]http://www.kaitaia.com/funny/pictures/ThreadHijack/thread_direction.gif[/img]
To sum up the tangent: Apple products are now drastically LESS overpriced.
P.S.
Saying you can't compare their products to others is BS. You look at price/performance ratio. If one product has better features that gets added to performance. It's just that simple. |
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blackjack
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| swigs wrote: |
| Cordova wrote: |
I guess my point is that yes, the iPod Touch is a sexy aerodynamic piece of technology with Wi-Fi but so what? I have a cheap Sony MyLo with Wi-Fi. And why do I need to have WiFi wherever I go? It's all hype & I bought into it when I got my 16 GB touch. I'll take a $400 ASUS netbook over the ever so stylish cast aluminum Mac Book Air at $2500.
The Furby analogy referred to the frequent fads that occur in the market in case you didn't get it. Similar to the jerk offs that spent premiums on the Toyota Prius to show the rest of us that they cared more about global warming.
Apple is overpriced crap. I 'll go with my inferior Cowon any day. Someday you'll learn. |
The moment I start to perceive Apple as overpriced as Microsoft I'll maybe reconsider. Although Apple has had a past of overcharging the the 90's, recently the competition can not keep up with their pricing.
1. You can't find a comparable laptop for the price with the included software and hardware.
2. Nothing comparable to the Ipod in that price range, IMO.
3. Macbook Airs now start at 1,500 (You get what you pay for with Asus, 10 year old technology) With the Macbook Air you can actually do modern computing tasks. Such as photo shop, or other similar creative tasks. But you can get the new Macbook with quality modern hardware for less than 1k. Mine's lasted me for more than 3 years, something I doubt an Asus would last since the tech is already 10 years old.
4. Your supporting a western company that has higher salaries to pay. (That's one of the reasons why I also shop at American Apparel, to support non child labor and just Western production in general. As Jon Stwert says about America, "We don't do production, all we do is consume, if you take that away we're Poland") (And yes I'm aware some of the manufacturing is still done in China and Asia)
5. Even if it's a Western company, the competition can't create products with similar value at the same price. Not even the Pre or Nokia was able to build a phone in a similar price bracket with comparable features.
6. Your Ipod does more than wi-fi, with the thousands of apps, it's connected to the world at large. You can download thousands of different books on the go, or download the latest news to read when your not in a wi-fi zone. What other devices do that for free?
7. You can't call Apple 'overpriced' when there is nothing in the price range that compares. Sure Asus might have some tech that is around 1/3 the price, but the specs are often less than 1/3 of the performance.
And I got the furby analogy, just thought it was way off base. Remember it was Apple who created the idea of using different style fonts on a computer. Why would I want to support an Asian company that uses ten year old technology and rips ideas from other companies with little to no innovation? I don't think I would enjoy buying old technology at a new retail price. (And I'm a thrifty person, whom reuses old tech and clothing when possible) So if anything it's Asus whom is overpriced and possibly just a fad. The net books they sell should be no more than 200 most of the time. |
1. You can't find a comparable laptop for the price with the included software and hardware.
yes you can
2. Nothing comparable to the Ipod in that price range, IMO.
Iriver, cowon etc
3. Macbook Airs now start at 1,500 (You get what you pay for with Asus, 10 year old technology) With the Macbook Air you can actually do modern computing tasks. Such as photo shop, or other similar creative tasks. But you can get the new Macbook with quality modern hardware for less than 1k. Mine's lasted me for more than 3 years, something I doubt an Asus would last since the tech is already 10 years old.
care to quote your sources here mate. 10 year old tech?
4. Your supporting a western company that has higher salaries to pay. (That's one of the reasons why I also shop at American Apparel, to support non child labor and just Western production in general. As Jon Stwert says about America, "We don't do production, all we do is consume, if you take that away we're Poland") (And yes I'm aware some of the manufacturing is still done in China and Asia)
some of the manufacturing? I would say most if not all. Come on thats are pretty poor reason
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=14915
nice 
5. Even if it's a Western company, the competition can't create products with similar value at the same price. Not even the Pre or Nokia was able to build a phone in a similar price bracket with comparable features.
The pre does have comparable features, plus you are forgetting it is not the initial price of the phone it's the contract
6. Your Ipod does more than wi-fi, with the thousands of apps, it's connected to the world at large. You can download thousands of different books on the go, or download the latest news to read when your not in a wi-fi zone. What other devices do that for free?
maybe not 1000s of apps but that stuff is just overrated crap anyway. lots of phones have the internet now, some can be used as readers. Lots of mp3s can be used as readers
7. You can't call Apple 'overpriced' when there is nothing in the price range that compares. Sure Asus might have some tech that is around 1/3 the price, but the specs are often less than 1/3 of the performance.
once again show some proof |
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swigs
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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No, the Pre was not able to create a comparable product at a similar price bracket. Even with a subsidized phone contract the Pre still costs 300 dollars before a mail in rebate, while the comparable Iphone only costs 99 with out a rebate. That is a difference of 200 dollars... Plus the Pre is pretty much the iphone just trying to be re engineered since one of Apples head ex-engineers designed it (don't know how that's legal).
So your saying the net books are not 10 years old tech? It's just rehashed tech running on an outdated OS... Nothing special... My ipod does virtually anything a netbook can do. A netbook is not that much lighter than my 13 inch laptop, but my ipod fits in my pocket and can go anywhere. 10inch screens with operating systems not intended for size is a pain to use, to each their own. There is no reason for me to purchase a netbook since I have an Ipod, and my three year old sub 1k laptop is more powerful than a brand new netbook. In three years I assume a current netbook will not be able to handle non-html based websites, making them possibly almost completely useless.
And you still have not given an example laptop that is comparable to an apple laptop. And of course not just hardware, but a laptop that includes a non-disabled fully functional operating system with an included basic creative suite, along with a comparable battery, shell, monitor, equivalent specs (no DDR2), and mouse pad.
Comparing a netbook to a new mac is like comparing a old pinto to a new BMW, and saying, 'look they both have wheels'.
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro
You get what you pay for. |
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ekul
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Location: [Mod Edit]
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| Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| swigs wrote: |
No, the Pre was not able to create a comparable product at a similar price bracket. Even with a subsidized phone contract the Pre still costs 300 dollars before a mail in rebate, while the comparable Iphone only costs 99 with out a rebate. That is a difference of 200 dollars... Plus the Pre is pretty much the iphone just trying to be re engineered since one of Apples head ex-engineers designed it (don't know how that's legal).
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What's that the pre is cheaper than the iphone?
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/iphone-3gs-179-to-build-says-isuppli/
The pre is cheaper than the iphone, it's just contract discounts and all that malarkey that skew the real price. |
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swigs
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:50 am Post subject: |
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The cost to the consumer, not the manufacturer. And that is the 3G S, the Pre's specs and features are more comparable to the Iphone 3G, which costs 99 with contract. But you are correct that the Sprints contract is slightly cheaper, but Sprint's service makes ATT look much stronger. I used to have Sprint, and it was quite spotty.
The fact is: The Pre is an imitator, and not an innovator. Apple does not hold back features such as multi tasking because they did not think of them, it's because they have a better grasp at balancing software with the current hardware for optimization.
Your point is moot.
And besides the price point, I'd rather have an iphone for a variety of other reasons. But the fact that you can by an ipod for under 300 dollars that can do almost as much, if not more, than the Pre also speaks. To me having a physical keyboard on a hand held device is out dated for numerous reasons, such as creating more bulk and weakening the structural integrity of the device by adding more weak points. The Pre is aimed at old men whom are more comfortable with yesterday's tech. (Palm says so themselves)
But to each their own. |
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