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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| My point was that stuff like Dokdo is neither new nor confined to countries like Korea, therefore it is the height of hypocrisy for people who come from countries that have on-going territoral disputes to complain about Korea doing this. |
Yes, I absolutely agree with you. (There is a first time for everything.  )
Isn't it irritating to see all the Westerners who come here and complain how Korea ought to do things in a "modern," "enlightened" (read "Western") way? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| My point was that stuff like Dokdo is neither new nor confined to countries like Korea, therefore it is the height of hypocrisy for people who come from countries that have on-going territoral disputes to complain about Korea doing this. |
Yes, I absolutely agree with you. (There is a first time for everything. )
Isn't it irritating to see all the Westerners who come here and complain how Korea ought to do things in a "modern," "enlightened" (read "Western") way? |
And I agree with this although I'm still having a hard time believing we actually agree on something.
I hope this isn't a harbinger of Judgment Day... |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Ten points to the poster who adequately explains why 1) this is a current event or 2) why in the hell I should care about this topic. |
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supernick
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| My point was that stuff like Dokdo is neither new nor confined to countries like Korea, therefore it is the height of hypocrisy for people who come from countries that have on-going territoral disputes to complain about Korea doing this. |
My point is, that some countries do have border issues and for the most part their governments (not private citizens) do try to work these issues out in a mature way. Canada, the U.S. Norway, Denmark and Russia have had meetings, and so far so good. There are people cutting off fingers in protest.
I did read this mans website sometime ago. There is some good information there and is certainly worth a read. He is saying that Koreans should not act emotional about Dokdo, and I think that is good advice.
Personally, Korea has a good case, but I can't stand the way how they deal with it. Also, a few newspaper articles in Canada took the Hans Island story to an extreme, and used some misinformation. However, there was very little reaction in Canada and Demark, and both countries are still good friends. It's not the dipute that people have a problem with; it's the way in which Korea deals with it.
Hans Island will probably end up being devided and Canada will have a new land border with a distant country. No compalints from me. |
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b-class rambler
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| supernick wrote: |
Personally, Korea has a good case, but I can't stand the way how they deal with it. |
Presumably you think even less of how Japan deals with it then.
Because there's something conveniently (or maybe just ignorantly) missed by all the expats, like some on this thread, saying that Korea needs to deal with it better and that no-one in calm, mature old Japan gives a damn anyway. Quite simply, without the Japanese government's official and persistantly maintained stance of claiming their own complete sovereignty there wouldn't be any dispute at all.
And it isn't by any means just Korea, whose territory is subject to a Japanese claim on it that they refuse to budge on. Japan presently claims territory of every single one of its neighbours - Russia in the north, Korea in the west, and China and Taiwan in the south. All of this despite the fact that they undeniably got a hell of a lot luckier than anyone else in the region in the aftermath of WW2. They avoided national division, hence no civil war or threat thereof, they kept their emperor system and even retained the same damn emperor! Yet that doesn't appear to be enough.
Personally, I don't think Korea does always play its cards in the best possible way on this issue. But it beggars belief that some people (to be fair, not necessarily the poster I quoted here) actually have the crass stupidity to suggest things along the lines of 'why can't Korea deal with it like Japan?' |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| supernick wrote: |
| He is saying that Koreans should not act emotional about Dokdo, and I think that is good advice. |
I think you'd probably be just as emotional about Hans Island if the Russians had previously inflicted a brutal occupation on you for decades.
Dokdo, a tiny rock in the ocean, is a symbol, nothing more, that encapsulates the Korean grief and sense of loss over the era of Japanese domination.
...although, yes, i totally dislike the way they're handling it. Emotionalism and extremism is no match for a rational and well-presented case. What bothers me the most is they and their idea of "ownership" (ie something that you can abuse as you wish) -is quickly trashing that pretty islet with pollution and thousands of day trippers running amok all over it. They obviously don't actually care about that place as they are treating it like a toilet.
For this reason alone I'd prefer that it be granted to Japan. Japanese islands are so much more tastefully and better looked after. |
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b-class rambler
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Japanese islands are so much more tastefully and better looked after. |
Well, if your idea of tasteful and well looked after includes vending machines absolutely everywhere, an escalator to the top so the poor tourists don't have to climb up, some nice big loudspeakers dotted around to get people back to the souvenir shop before their boat leaves and hundreds of beautiful tetrapods to keep the nasty sea away.......then yes indeed, you probably have a point that's difficult to argue with. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| b-class rambler wrote: |
| supernick wrote: |
Personally, Korea has a good case, but I can't stand the way how they deal with it. |
Presumably you think even less of how Japan deals with it then.
Because there's something conveniently (or maybe just ignorantly) missed by all the expats, like some on this thread, saying that Korea needs to deal with it better and that no-one in calm, mature old Japan gives a damn anyway. Quite simply, without the Japanese government's official and persistantly maintained stance of claiming their own complete sovereignty there wouldn't be any dispute at all.
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Heck, I've been saying the same thing for years now. But reason and logic never get far against the blind mental block that some people display when the topic turns to Koreans. Of course most will insist that they don't hate Korea, but that Dokdo belongs to Japan...because some other expat said so on his blog or something like that. |
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