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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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 Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| E_athlete wrote: |
| I never said it was the end of the world. Having said that I do think that religious indoctrination is worse than getting molested. Molestation scars you, religious indoctrination psychologically scars you and makes you stupider. |
You sound like you may have been molested, or molest |
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DorkothyParker
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Location: Jeju
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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My husband is atheist. I've read too many Philip K Dick novels and therefore consider myself agnostic (kinda crossing my fingers on a higher lifeform/consciousness... though I don't technically BELIEVE in anything). I also have a crush on Science.
Most Atheist groups are political in nature I would imagine? I don't think that would necessarily be as productive here in Korea. Nonetheless, it would be great to get together and sacrifice virgins, drink Christian baby blood, and not say "Merry Christmas" in December. 
Or, at least grab a beer and not judge one another's bad habits. |
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Carl_00
Joined: 18 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: Athiests in Korea |
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| Ed Provencher wrote: |
The more I live life, the more I see life as meaningless. Meaningless in the sense of an empty canvass. The only meaning in life is that which we give it.
This brings me to my question about living in Korea. Are there groups of athiests in Korea? Or groups that have a similar way of thinking that I do about life? |
Atheism isn't necessarily Nihilism. But I guess it depends on who you speak to. |
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TheBulimicFatGuy
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:43 am Post subject: Re: parents of mixed religious views |
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| AbbeFaria wrote: |
I can't believe you never had that conversation with her about how to raise your child before now. What your wife is doing is brainwashing your son and you are sitting idly by while she does it. |
That's a conversation I guarantee wouldn't go well. I made it clear that religion has no appeal for me before we got married and she accepted that (eventually). As for my son, well, I'm not exactly sitting idly by. I spend a lot of time with him and do my best to exercise his critical thinking skills. He actually cried the other day when we had to stop watching youtube videos of spaceships, Hubble images, etc in order to go eat dinner.
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
My view with my son is that it is not my job to tell him what to think, it's my job to teach him how to think. When he's older, at least in his teens, if he wants to check out church because some of his friends go, that's fine with me, but the point is to make sure he's old enough to understand what they're saying and think a little critically about it. He can ask me as many questions about it as he likes, and I hope he does. I want him to know how to ask them first, not just accept what the man at the pulpit says. |
I was looking at the whole church going thing as part of the inoculation process. Mixed with some decent education, I figured he'd clue in to reality on his own. Now, I'm not so sure and I certainly don't want him to go through the same garbage I did growing up.
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
Tell her she can't take him back until he's old enough to understand what they're shoving down son's throat.
-S- |
It might come to that. But if it does, I will be going against her and her whole family since they're all active Christians. It's gonna be ugly... |
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TheBulimicFatGuy
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:49 am Post subject: Re: parents of mixed religious views |
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| tfunk wrote: |
| Do you think your child would be happier as an Atheist? |
Happier as an atheist? Not sure about that. I am anyway. I certainly think he would be more blissful as a believer in a religion. But so was I when I thought Santa Claus was real. |
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TheBulimicFatGuy
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:51 am Post subject: Re: parents of mixed religious views |
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| digsydinner wrote: |
aren't you guys worried to spend eternity burning in hell? why not just go to church a couple times and hedge yourself..."just in case" you could be wrong...  |
You're so right! Any particular recommendations? I know this nice little temple in Itaewon... |
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AmericanExile
Joined: 04 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Straphanger wrote: |
| Be free from the invisible man in the sky who sees everything they do and disapproves of most of it. |
Or woman. Why does the supreme being you don't believe in have to be a guy? Couldn't you disbelieve a supreme female just as easily? |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:17 am Post subject: Re: parents of mixed religious views |
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| TheBulimicFatGuy wrote: |
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
I can't believe you never had that conversation with her about how to raise your child before now. What your wife is doing is brainwashing your son and you are sitting idly by while she does it. |
That's a conversation I guarantee wouldn't go well. I made it clear that religion has no appeal for me before we got married and she accepted that (eventually). As for my son, well, I'm not exactly sitting idly by. I spend a lot of time with him and do my best to exercise his critical thinking skills. He actually cried the other day when we had to stop watching youtube videos of spaceships, Hubble images, etc in order to go eat dinner.
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
My view with my son is that it is not my job to tell him what to think, it's my job to teach him how to think. When he's older, at least in his teens, if he wants to check out church because some of his friends go, that's fine with me, but the point is to make sure he's old enough to understand what they're saying and think a little critically about it. He can ask me as many questions about it as he likes, and I hope he does. I want him to know how to ask them first, not just accept what the man at the pulpit says. |
I was looking at the whole church going thing as part of the inoculation process. Mixed with some decent education, I figured he'd clue in to reality on his own. Now, I'm not so sure and I certainly don't want him to go through the same garbage I did growing up.
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
Tell her she can't take him back until he's old enough to understand what they're shoving down son's throat.
-S- |
It might come to that. But if it does, I will be going against her and her whole family since they're all active Christians. It's gonna be ugly... |
You make it sounds like it could be terrible. I grew up in a Christian family and was encouraged to seek any and all forms of education. I learned about dinosaurs, evolution, and space just as much as I did about the Old and New Testament. This was with TWO quite devout parents as it was. There was never any conflict of interest between creation vs. evoloution or other issues in my childhood at all. I remember thinking the church kids who learned creation only at their Christian school being a bit loony. My folks specifically sent me to public school to learn everything. I remember my mother getting a bit irritated when another parent was concerned that my 2nd grade teacher was Jewish. That's when I learned about Jews and their history and customs.
The point is, even with Christian parents and being sent to church, I developed a holistic education with complete freedom in what to believe. I was taught that "sex is good but it is best to make choices about it as an adult" and "as Christians we believe this, but people still make their own choices." I thank my parents for being rational but also sharing their faith with me. There was no brainwashing involved. Christianity is both a religion and a historic tradition of rituals and customs. If your kid comes home clasping his hands, that's one aspect of what he has learned. If you are atheist, share your beliefs and let mom share her beliefs. He will eventually make his own decisions. All humans are rational and if they are raised in an environment of diverse ideas, they will make sound decisions. It's not a good idea to make an "us vs. them" issue in a marriage. Sounds problematic down the road. Far more problematic than mom taking junior to church, mosque, temple, strip club, or whatever. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Athiests in Korea |
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| Mint wrote: |
| Ed Provencher wrote: |
The more I live life, the more I see life as meaningless. Meaningless in the sense of an empty canvass. The only meaning in life is that which we give it.
This brings me to my question about living in Korea. Are there groups of athiests in Korea? Or groups that have a similar way of thinking that I do about life? |
Hear hear!
Existential idealism is the most fulfilling and logical way to spend a life. What would people with a heroic worldview do as a group? |
Would you explain the ideas behind "existential idealism", please? |
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Carl_00
Joined: 18 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: Athiests in Korea |
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del.
Last edited by Carl_00 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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E_athlete
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Location: Korea sparkling
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: parents of mixed religious views |
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^ all those nice things you described about your parents has nothing to do with Christianity but your society's secular values. If you look at history you will notice that Christians were not always nice moderates like your parents. It was our development in science and technology and secular values that changed Christians from their barbaric ways to the type of push overs you see today.
Christianity says nothing about educating yourself in evolution, sex, and all other forms of education. In fact, whenever science contradicts the bible, Christians in high places get upset and see it as a challenge to the church institution.
Another thing is you are generalizing when you try to tell us that all Christians are religious moderates like your parents. Obviously moderates are better than extremists that blow themselves up and kill abortion doctors. Having said that religious moderates like your parents can still hold maladaptive beliefs that have consequences. Beliefs like homosexuality as an 'ethical issue.' Hindering stem cell research. Advocating against condom use in Africa where AIDS is rampant. I can go on and on.
Some are more rational than others. Christians believe in extraordinary things without any evidence (faith). If there is any evidence presented it's usually terrible. In what other avenue of discourse do we allow this other than religion? |
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AgentM
Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Location: British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: parents of mixed religious views |
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| E_athlete wrote: |
^ all those nice things you described about your parents has nothing to do with Christianity but your society's secular values. If you look at history you will notice that Christians were not always nice moderates like your parents. It was our development in science and technology and secular values that changed Christians from their barbaric ways to the type of push overs you see today.
Christianity says nothing about educating yourself in evolution, sex, and all other forms of education. In fact, whenever science contradicts the bible, Christians in high places get upset and see it as a challenge to the church institution. |
I think you're making a lot of assumptions here. Particularly, you are over-generalizing all Christians as if the are all the same. They're not. Not all Christians back in the 'old days' were extremists either, just as not all of them are now.
Don't get me wrong, I have major issues with religion too. However, it's unfair to whitewash entire religions, even if you're talking about an earlier era in history. You can't say "all Christians were barbaric before x time." |
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E_athlete
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Location: Korea sparkling
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: parents of mixed religious views |
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| AgentM wrote: |
| E_athlete wrote: |
^ all those nice things you described about your parents has nothing to do with Christianity but your society's secular values. If you look at history you will notice that Christians were not always nice moderates like your parents. It was our development in science and technology and secular values that changed Christians from their barbaric ways to the type of push overs you see today.
Christianity says nothing about educating yourself in evolution, sex, and all other forms of education. In fact, whenever science contradicts the bible, Christians in high places get upset and see it as a challenge to the church institution. |
I think you're making a lot of assumptions here. Particularly, you are over-generalizing all Christians as if the are all the same. They're not. Not all Christians back in the 'old days' were extremists either, just as not all of them are now.
Don't get me wrong, I have major issues with religion too. However, it's unfair to whitewash entire religions, even if you're talking about an earlier era in history. You can't say "all Christians were barbaric before x time." |
I never said all Christians are extremists. The fact that I called his parents moderates is a testament to this fact (read).
Christians were barbaric by relative to today's standards. Read the bible, read European history. |
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AgentM
Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Location: British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: parents of mixed religious views |
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| E_athlete wrote: |
| Christians were barbaric by relative to today's standards. Read the bible, read European history. |
I am knowledgeable of history thank you. When it first started Christians may have been barbaric, but in those days everyone was by our standards the Christians were not unique. The Bible was a product of it's times, and you can even see social evolution taking place between the Old Testament (wrathful vengeful God) and the New Testament (God loves you). |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Some atheists form skeptic groups such as 'skeptics in the pub'. Maybe this would be more enjoyable than straight out atheism vs religion. Most skeptics clubs would centre around critical thinking, logical fallacies, supernatural claims and bad science in the news and such. You could listen to podcasts such as the skeptics guide then discuss it with others.
http://www.theskepticsguide.org/ |
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