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Robot_Teacher
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Location: Robotting Around the World
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 Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Hamlets right.
I'll add that you have to know and understand English speakers culture to really grasp the language and those who've traveled catch on much quicker than those who stay on the ROK all their lives. The kids visiting New Zealand right now will come back 100 steps ahead of their peers for sure. In Korea, there's no need to actually speak English as it's the opposite of an English speaking country. It's probably one of the most non-English speaking countries in the world.
Why is English so hard to learn? It's different like night from day than Asian languages that carry a different turned around logic. There's also a vast culturally difference to be learned only through experience. Ever try to use a translator program like Babelfish? It doesn't work, except with some single words.
I'm trying to get my students to get English/Korean dictionaries as they are in very short supply. Well, most of my students are poor country kids staying with their grandparents so they don't have much. I've got at least one dictionary in each class now and have the students share it for vocabulary. It's tough to teach low level, because they don't learn if they don't know what you're saying. I've got 4th, 5th, and 6th graders having never been taught basic phonics. It's too late at that point to be teaching kindergarten level, but I throw stuff in.
Also, they're so concerned about making mistakes as the Korean language and teaching is so rigid that it's got to be perfect or you get corrected with this negative attitude no one wants to receive or confusion locks up communication. I got quite turned off on trying to speak Korean for this very reason.
I understand that Hangulmal is difficult because so many words are too similar that sound too similar that mean very different things so it's imperative to achieve correct pronunciation to a high level of perfection. Not so with English. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| oskinny1 wrote: |
| Privateer wrote: |
Oh, back to the phonetic alphabet debate...Fine, if you want to spell every word phonetically every English-speaking country - hell every region, every individual even - will end up spelling words differently.
English spelling makes perfect sense or otherwise we wouldn't be able to read; one only needs to recognize the family resemblances between particular groups of words and the way they are spelt. |
spelled  |
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spelt
| Quote: |
spelt1 /spɛlt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [spelt]
�verb a pt. and pp. of spell 1 . |
Alternative spelling.  |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| hamlet712 wrote: |
| Privateer wrote: |
Oh, back to the phonetic alphabet debate...Fine, if you want to spell every word phonetically every English-speaking country - hell every region, every individual even - will end up spelling words differently.
English spelling makes perfect sense or otherwise we wouldn't be able to read; one only needs to recognize the family resemblances between particular groups of words and the way they are spelt. |
Yes because its so easy for a second language learner to grasp that virtually every vowel can be pronounced at least 5 different ways, and that pretty much ALL vowels in one word or another make the sound of another vowel ( as in the women example)
Yes because its so easy for a second language learner to grasp that "ough" can be said 8 different ways ( however theres basically only six in common speech) not ONE of them is how the words actually sound prima facia
Yes because its so easy for a second language learner to grasp that i before e except after c unless its says "ay" as in neigher and weigh - Unless you are talking about the 100 other words that dont follow this rule like beige, rotweiller, caffiene, weird etc ( as i said there is over 100)
Yes because its so easy for a second language learner to grasp that wind ( a watch) and wind (weather) are two different words and pronounced differently - thats a simple example there are many other longer and more complex words that would cause problems
The you have silent k's slient p's, silent gh's, figuring out when a G sounds like a G and when it sounds like a J, figuring out when a c sounds like a K and when it sounds like an s, WAIT A MINUTE if the letter c doesnt even have its own sound, why do we have it? HOnestly?????
Yes the english language is a stupid language, maybe others like french and german have similar problems, but its a stupid language, that were it not for the historical spreading of it over the last 500 years, no one would want to learn it as it's second only to chinese as the hardest language to grasp.
It's as simple as that. there are so many broken rules, stupid spellings, and complex sentence structures that learning it is not easy. |
Despite everything you say, I've always found spelling to be very much the least of my students' problems. And, even if it were (which it isn't) who says the definition of a 'stupid' language is one that non-native speakers find hard to learn, anyway?
And the rules of spelling are not 'broken'; they simply apply to groups of words rather than all words. Any halfway competent teacher can, for instance, put all the 'ow' words that rhyme with 'oh' together for students to learn, and later put the 'ow' words that rhyme with, well, 'ow' together. Not a complicated matter. And students get it.
I do agree with you that the sentence structures can get complex! And students seem to have an awful time remembering what form of the verb to use. Still doesn't make the language 'stupid' though.
Sorry, but I don't like to hear English maligned. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| I think a good language should be difficult to learn. |
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oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
| oskinny1 wrote: |
| Privateer wrote: |
Oh, back to the phonetic alphabet debate...Fine, if you want to spell every word phonetically every English-speaking country - hell every region, every individual even - will end up spelling words differently.
English spelling makes perfect sense or otherwise we wouldn't be able to read; one only needs to recognize the family resemblances between particular groups of words and the way they are spelt. |
spelled |
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spelt
| Quote: |
spelt1 /spɛlt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [spelt]
�verb a pt. and pp. of spell 1 . |
Alternative spelling. |
I know, I was just being an a**.
What is annoying is to see English teachers make basic grammar mistakes again and again in their posts discussing the English language. (not directed at you Privateer).
"is"=≤1
"are"=>1 |
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hamlet712
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Is it any more annoying than people who say irregardless is not a word when it is? |
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Bloopity Bloop
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul yo
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:10 am Post subject: |
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I think English is a great language in that it's so flexible.
I'm always curious as to what people in other countries talk about. When my friends and I are just hanging out, we usually have a running commentary about random, ridiculous BS; like an exaggeration or complete transformation of things we observe--kind of like stand-up comedy. When I was in China and Japan, I noticed people didn't really do that at all.
Don't know if that makes sense--but there doesn't seem to be that ridiculous use of language in non-English speaking countries I've been too. As in, nothing like the dialogue in Superbad. Or the kind of humor in The Office (both US & BBC) wouldn't be understood (if someone made a similarly awkward show in Japanese or Chinese or Korean). |
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oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| hamlet712 wrote: |
| Is it any more annoying than people who say irregardless is not a word when it is? |
Yes, it is much more so.
I admit that it is somewhat a word (see quote below), but like "ain't" it is only used by ignorant people. You, as an English teacher, should know better.
| Merriam-Webster wrote: |
Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.
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hamlet712
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| oskinny1 wrote: |
| hamlet712 wrote: |
| Is it any more annoying than people who say irregardless is not a word when it is? |
Yes, it is much more so.
I admit that it is somewhat a word (see quote below), but like "ain't" it is only used by ignorant people. You, as an English teacher, should know better.
| Merriam-Webster wrote: |
Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.
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HOLY CRAP, And i thought I was an arrogant twit.
If the english language can have flammable and imflammable mean the same thing, or ravel and unravel mean the same thing then I am sure many english speakers are comfortable saying irregardless or regardless interchangably.
Its hardly ignorant to use a word the dictionary has stated for decades is a word. I have known some intelligent people to use the word "ain't" as well.
Words like these points to the ignorance of the english language, not to the ignorance on the part of english speakers.
many english speakers still can not master the "you and I" "You and me" distinction, its not like many people have a complex mastery of the English language just because they happen to live in Korea and speak it. You can work here with a degree in interior design.
What exactly should I (or anyone else) know better? We should know better than to use a word that the English language regards as a word simply because there's a "better"word out there?
I'd like to teach you another english word, its called a SYNONYM, there's even this thing called a thesaurus that lists them, perhaps you have heard of it.
I do not use the word myself, but i dont consider those that do to be ignorant, I consider you to be ignorant when you want to correct people that it isnt a word when it is, then insult people who use it. |
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chonga
Joined: 15 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Because I overheard a guy in a bar last night here in the states say "Damn, I wish these damn foreigners would learn to speak some American!" |
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beercanman
Joined: 16 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Bloopity Bloop wrote: |
I think English is a great language in that it's so flexible.
I'm always curious as to what people in other countries talk about. When my friends and I are just hanging out, we usually have a running commentary about random, ridiculous BS; like an exaggeration or complete transformation of things we observe--kind of like stand-up comedy. When I was in China and Japan, I noticed people didn't really do that at all.
Don't know if that makes sense--but there doesn't seem to be that ridiculous use of language in non-English speaking countries I've been too. As in, nothing like the dialogue in Superbad. Or the kind of humor in The Office (both US & BBC) wouldn't be understood (if someone made a similarly awkward show in Japanese or Chinese or Korean). |
I've wondered this too. Some great comedy in English is just playing with the language. I don't know if other languages do it so much or so well. And that brand of humor like 'The Office' based on embarrassment and ridiculousness, I really cannot see that working in many cultures. |
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Goku
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| beercanman wrote: |
| Bloopity Bloop wrote: |
I think English is a great language in that it's so flexible.
I'm always curious as to what people in other countries talk about. When my friends and I are just hanging out, we usually have a running commentary about random, ridiculous BS; like an exaggeration or complete transformation of things we observe--kind of like stand-up comedy. When I was in China and Japan, I noticed people didn't really do that at all.
Don't know if that makes sense--but there doesn't seem to be that ridiculous use of language in non-English speaking countries I've been too. As in, nothing like the dialogue in Superbad. Or the kind of humor in The Office (both US & BBC) wouldn't be understood (if someone made a similarly awkward show in Japanese or Chinese or Korean). |
I've wondered this too. Some great comedy in English is just playing with the language. I don't know if other languages do it so much or so well. And that brand of humor like 'The Office' based on embarrassment and ridiculousness, I really cannot see that working in many cultures. |
The other day my girlfriend said "I cooked myself and ate"
I couldn't stop laughing. I always joke that I'm going to eat her up and when she said this, she had no idea that it could be miscontrued for self canablism.
English is a great language to play around with but to learn. I'd be angry as hell if at the minnium I wasn't learning based on a romanized language.  |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I told him to light the light light, but it was a light light. |
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