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Hogwans love teachers who teach BAD English
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Overly annunciating and speaking superslow is good for students?
yes
28%
 28%  [ 10 ]
no
71%
 71%  [ 25 ]
Total Votes : 35

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Ilsanman



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 11:10 pm    Post subject: yes Reply with quote

for a lower level class, I break down my sentences, but not to idiot speed. If they can't pronounce a word, I might emphasize each syllable, until they can do it. Then I can speed up again. I don't speak to the kids like retards. If a sentence is difficult, I say it twice, a little slower, or pause in the middle for a second. It helps me when people speak korean to me like that.

I think the point of this post was...don't talk to students like they are retards. They will just mimic it.
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Corporal



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:30 am    Post subject: Re: Hogwans love teachers who teach BAD English Reply with quote

The Man known as The Man wrote:
Corporal wrote:
sunspot wrote:
No one in Korea is ever going to learn to speak English if they learn from those kinds of teachers.


No one in Korea is ever going to learn how to spell it, either, judging from your version of "enunciate".


That was just plain harsh


Is that disapproval or admiration?

I need you to spell it out for me. Wink
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

its wierd...in taiwan they kept telling me to keep it at dead slow speed. Here they told me to speed up and speak at normal rate.
Who knows whats best? If you are a parent teaching your infant how to speak do you speak super slow?? Probably not. The natural speed is probably the best.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:46 am    Post subject: Re: Hogwans love teachers who teach BAD English Reply with quote

Corporal wrote:
The Man known as The Man wrote:
Corporal wrote:
sunspot wrote:
No one in Korea is ever going to learn to speak English if they learn from those kinds of teachers.


No one in Korea is ever going to learn how to spell it, either, judging from your version of "enunciate".


That was just plain harsh


Is that disapproval or admiration?

I need you to spell it out for me. Wink



I think that he was trying to say.............


















THERE'S NO LOVE IN THIS POST!!






















WELL???
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peppermint



Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I speak slowly, but I try to speak quickly enough that its a slight challenge for them. Every so often with an overconfident freetalking class, I'll speak at full speed.

Full speed for a Newfie is damned fast, so that only lasts about a minute or two.
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eamo



Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tutors on my TESL course told us to speak at our normal speed. It's the perceived wisdom in the professional TESL scene at the moment.

Of course, as soon as I arrived in Korea I realised on my first day of teaching that I had to slow down to be understood.

I think the TESL tutors were totally wrong in the context of teaching beginners. Maybe for advanced students.
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Corporal



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:43 am    Post subject: Re: Hogwans love teachers who teach BAD English Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Corporal wrote:
The Man known as The Man wrote:
Corporal wrote:
sunspot wrote:
No one in Korea is ever going to learn to speak English if they learn from those kinds of teachers.


No one in Korea is ever going to learn how to spell it, either, judging from your version of "enunciate".


That was just plain harsh


Is that disapproval or admiration?

I need you to spell it out for me. Wink



I think that he was trying to say.............


















THERE'S NO LOVE IN THIS POST!!






















WELL???


Really?

And I thought I was all about the love. Wink
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Skarp



Joined: 22 Aug 2003

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Key word is balance.


Another key word is stretching.


Normal speed is best. A range of normal speeds exist.

You have a slow normal, that you might use when trying to give clear instructions or if speaking to a foreigner (eg British to American.) This is too slow for normal conversation but about right for a beginner class. (Not many classes are beginners though)


Then there is fast normal - used when having a joke with other natives and when you are excited or animated. This is too fast for even high level classes usually.


More important than speed is 'enunciation/articulation'

Super slow speakers lose a number of vital features of connected speech. Liaison. Elision. strong and weak forms. This is very annoying to listen to and will make a student no friends if they speak like this abroad.


The maligned TESOL/TESL teachers are not wrong. An appropriate version of normal speech is best.

Filter out difficult expressions, slangy pronunciation, any strong accent (even if American) and you will be OK. And keep just out of reach of the students, so they are stretched all the time. (but not too far or they will quit)

There are loads of fun listening games you can play in class to help students adapt from Konglish to English pronunciation, and the main areas for work are in features of connected speech.

Skarp.
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Juggertha



Joined: 27 May 2003
Location: Anyang, Korea

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when introducing something i often -

-read it once at a "normal" speed.
-read it again stressing all the important pronunciation points (slowly)
-and again at a normal speed.

rinse/repeat
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jajdude



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The poll question sounded biased. "Overly" and "superslow" make it sound bad. But you often got to go slow and pronounce carefully. If the question was simply "speaking slowly and clearly is usually the best for lower-level students" then who would say no?
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The Man known as The Man



Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Hogwans love teachers who teach BAD English Reply with quote

Corporal wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Corporal wrote:
The Man known as The Man wrote:
Corporal wrote:
sunspot wrote:
No one in Korea is ever going to learn to speak English if they learn from those kinds of teachers.


No one in Korea is ever going to learn how to spell it, either, judging from your version of "enunciate".


That was just plain harsh


Is that disapproval or admiration?

I need you to spell it out for me. Wink



I think that he was trying to say.............


















THERE'S NO LOVE IN THIS POST!!






















WELL???


Really?

And I thought I was all about the love. Wink



No. I admired the love in this post.
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slap it



Joined: 21 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:53 pm    Post subject: bad teachers Reply with quote

that's only true if you work for a bad school. bad schools like bad teachers.......good schools have good teachers. so.........go work for a good school and you won't see what you see...
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ladyandthetramp



Joined: 21 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rapier wrote:
its wierd...in taiwan they kept telling me to keep it at dead slow speed. Here they told me to speed up and speak at normal rate.
Who knows whats best? If you are a parent teaching your infant how to speak do you speak super slow?? Probably not. The natural speed is probably the best.


Probably the best if it's your mother tongue, yes. For the kindergarteners who learn quickly (remember, the ability to acquire language is greatly affected by age), I find that I can speak at a fairly normal rate. However, I find that with those beginning when they're a bit older you need to speak slower. If not, they won't understand a thing and will eventually give up. Did you every learn a second language? You need time to comprehend each word at first, and don't realize (or care) that you're being talked to like a "retard". I find that listening to Korean spoken at normal speed (I know it's relative) is much more difficult than watching those Korean dramas on TV, and I learn more watching those when I can understand what is being said. Speed will come with time, but it requires practice.

However, as far as articulation is concerned, I hope nobody is confusing articulation with "spelling" pronunciations. For example, I've heard it insisted that "butter" is pronounced "budder" in the U.S. only because we are sloppy and that it should really be said with a "t" sound. Nobody says it like that, and if they did you would laugh at them in America. I view good articulation as secondary to speed, because students will get used to however you articulate a word, so a natural articulation is better than a misinformed one.
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princess



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: soul of Asia

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been told to speak faster...
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