Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ED209]

[E_athlete]

[Underwaterbob]

Ahh, it's refreshing to see a good (at least mediocre) Rteacher rant after so long.

Right out of the gate, he feeds us the line that anyone who disagrees with him is a biased, materialistic scientist, predisposed to not believe in anything supernatural despite "compelling" evidence. In truth, and he even admits it in this thread, he's the one who's biased since he already believes in this particular load of supernatural bunkum whether there's any evidence for it or not, not to mention people who can live for decades without eating or that we should all "just chant and be happy" (which is one tenet of his beliefs I might be able to get down with, provided I don't have to watch his singsnap abominations).

Some science bashing and links to Krishna propaganda later and it gets pretty obvious he had no intention of showing us proof of anything, but rather he wanted to draw attention to his cause in the hopes of gaining converts.

Rteacher, tell us again how your "spiritual science" proves that the big blue baby farted out the universe in a bubble.

[Rteacher]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Ultimately, a person has to experience for himself. If a person eats a meal and feels satisfied, he doesn't need scientists to pick apart his brain to determine whether he has really experienced satisfaction or not.

Why some people may experience past-life recollections while others do not can be explained by different levels of consciousness as spiritual realization continues from the previous life. In the Vedic model, a person who makes any spiritual progress by the end of one life life picks up and progresses from that point in the next life.

Generally, such remembrances occur when they're very young before being subjected to heavy material conditioning/socialization.

Many cases have been documented, studied, and unsatisfactorily explained. Scientists with a strong materialistic bias naturally tend to reject the idea of a nonmaterial soul, while those with faith in something sublime (and free from sectarian dogma) are more receptive to the idea of past and future lives experienced by embodied souls.

Transcendental knowledge can be received by anyone seriously desiring to know one's constitutional relationship in relation to the Absolute Truth and willing to act accordingly (dovetailing one's own desires with those of the Supreme Person.)

The all-pervading spiritual expansion of the infinite Absolute Person is not material and thus not subject to any material limitations. As atomic particles of the Supreme Person we are also not material, but due to our infinitessimal size our consciousness is subject to being covered by the modes of ignorance and passion as we desire to enjoy in forgetfulness of our real identity.

As the Supersoul (Paramatma) localized in the heart of every living being - and within every atom - He knows everyone's past, present, and future lives and is the source of all knowledge, remembrance, and forgetfulness.

The material body serves as the vehicle for the soul over a finite period of time, but the spirit-soul goes on experiencing various stages of reality forever; so it's likely that each of us has had millions of births in the material world - which comprises just a small fraction of total existence.

The Vedic literatures explain the purpose of our many transmigrations and reincarnations ...

Ignorance of one's true self (atman or purusha) launches karma into action, the law of cause and effect in Eastern spirituality. Its first clear formulation can be found in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad (4,4,5): "According as one acts, according as one behaves, so does he become. The doer of good becomes good. The doer of evil becomes evil. One becomes virtuous by virtuous action, bad by bad action." Reincarnation (samsara) is the practical way in which one reaps the fruits of his deeds. Therefore, the self is forced to enter a new material existence until all karmic debt is paid: "By means of thought, touch, sight and passions and by the abundance of food and drink there are birth and development of the (embodied) self. According to his deeds, the embodied self assumes successively various forms in various conditions" (Shvetashvatara Upanishad 5,11).
http://www.crystalinks.com/reincarnation.html

The transmission of knowledge descending through disciplic succession is designed to work only through persons who are completely devoid of the tendency to cheat for material gain.

All materialists have a tendency to cheat at least a little - including scientists. A recent survey suggests that at least 15% of medical research is fabricated or falsified to some degree.
http://krishnascience.com/News/?p=67

Even Darwin was often less than scientifically objective.
http://krishnascience.com/files/News-Views10.html

Of course, there are also many so-called religionists, fake spiritualists, and ordinary opportunists who also cheat for material gain so one should be skeptical until more is learned about the character of people making claims.

[Underwaterbob]

[Rteacher]

I'll credit "Underwaterbob" with at least being game (to compete in a higher intellectual weightclass ... )

The "proof of the pudding is the eating" may be platitudinous when applied to a mundane topic, but it elegantly describes the process of transcendental self-realization.

Moreover, George Harrison used it to conclude his brief introduction to Krishna Book ...

Everybody is looking for KRSNA.
Some don't realize that they are, but they are.
KRSNA is GOD, the Source of all that exists,
the Cause of all that is, was, or ever will be.
As God is unlimited, HE has many Names.
Allah-Buddha-Jehova-Rama:
All are Krsna, all are ONE.
By serving GOD through each thought, word, and
DEED, and by chanting of HIS Holy Names,
the devotees quickly develops God-consciousness.
by chanting

Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna
Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama
Rama Rama, Hare Hare

one inevitably arrives as KRSNA Consciousness.
(The proof of the pudding is in the eating!)
http://www.harekrishna.com/col/books/YM/cbh/harrison.html
http://beatlesnumber9.com/hindu.html

Although the Krishna consciousness movement at its purest level is non-sectarian, religious scholars and people in general consider it to be an orthodox form of Hinduism.

Most Hindus are Vaishnavas (devotees of Vishnu as the Supreme Lord) and most Bengali (Gaudia) Vaishnavas identify with the Hare Krishna movement which was inaugurated by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu over 500 years ago in West Bengal (and spread throughout India via sankirtan...)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Society_for_Krishna_Consciousness

The main idea was to create a class of people not only thoroughly conversant with Vedic spiritual science (in accord with the Bengali Vaishnava traditon) but also adhering strictly to basic devotional principles: chanting a prescribed number of Hare Krishna mantras daily; not consuming any meat, fish, or eggs; not indulging in any intoxication (including coffee-tea-cigarettes); not gambling; and not engaging in any illicit sex.

Obviously it's not so easy to follow those regulations in modern cultures that strongly promote sensual gratification, so it's not very surprising that the number of core Krishna devotees rarely exceeded a few thousand.

Founder - and main spiritual master - A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada asserted that he would consider his mission a success if he could make even just one fallen soul a pure devotee of Krishna.

Regarding my assertion that the Absolute Person is not subject to any material limitation, it's obviously a faith-based statement that's consistent with the Vedic (personalist) conception of God. It doesn't involve any interpretation of data.

Contrary to stressing the "ineffable" nature of God, the Vaishnava traditon highlights the superexcellent beauty of Krishna, and all the qualities, names, and pastimes of the Supreme Person are revealed in Vedic literatures and by pure devotees who transmit transcendental knowledge via disciplic succession.
http://nectarofdevotion.com/en3
http://www.krishna.com/en/node/1677

Evolutionists have tried like hell to demonstrate that life can evolve from matter (ie: "chemical evolution") and some are continuing to do so - while discretely divorcing such efforts from modern evolution theory (at least partly) for political reasons.

[Underwaterbob]

[Rteacher]

Well, the infinitely powerful, intelligent, beautiful, wealthy, famous, and renounced Original Person can not be understood completely by any of its finite particles of consciousness.

However, each of us can become full of knowledge regarding our specific transcendental loving relationship with God by following the directions of a bona fide spiritual master.

According to our seriousness of purpose, the process can take several seconds - or several hundred lifetimes.
http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com/Lecture45.html
www.prabhupadaconnect.com/San_Francisco_Rathayatra_Lecture.html

[Forward Observer]

I grew up believing in reincarnation because my family believes, but I do agree that it's not a belief many can accept. In any case, there's not a lot anyone can do to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it happens. There's a lot of literature on the subject, but as most spiritual things - it's a matter of personal choice.

A Chinese proverb says, "It doesn't matter whether a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice.

[Underwaterbob]

[Rteacher]

The Vedic - and my - perspective is that as parts-and-parcels of God we really should know what our real identity is, and in order to understand that we need to have some God realization - which usually only happens in the human form.

God is unlimitedly renounced - or detached - in that He desires to enjoy reciprocal loving exchanges (in various kinds of relationships/rasas) with all his innumerable parts-and-parcels, but if they desire to try to enjoy separately, He obligingly supplies everything they need - including multiple universes, intelligence, and forgetfulness of their relationship with Him.

Everything is based on desire. When the living entity - individual spirit-soul - exhausts all material desires for enjoyment by transmigrating through the entire evolutionary cycle of over 8 million species and finally gets a human form (again) it's a great opportunity for self-realization and liberation from the viscious cycle of repeated birth and death.

As long as material desires are stronger than the spiritual desire of reviving one's relationship with God, the living being must reincarnate again as some form-or-other somewhere in the material universes.

[Underwaterbob]

[Rteacher]

I think that you're just getting tired of losin'.

Critical thinking is necessary, but at a certain stage one needs to make a stand for either the materialistic or the spiritual path.

Material science can waste hundreds of years trying to prove that consciousness is material and life is a by-product of matter, but I have faith that pure conciousness is nonmaterial and is the superior controller and origin of matter.

[Koveras]

[ED209]

Rteacher's proselytising is nothing but tiresome, of course he can only see this as our materialistic minds' fault. He has completely forgotten about his opening post, which failed "to provide compelling proof of reincarnation" he said it would do. And now falls into his mantra and endless links to 'krishnascience'. Not forgetting his endless attacks against science which does nothing to help his case.