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beercanman
Joined: 16 May 2009
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 Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| chemicalblur wrote: |
| tomato wrote: |
| beercanman wrote: |
How many Koreans have contact with non-Koreans?
That's all it is. Near zero contact. So, a bunch of ideas about "foreigners" which is only around 99% of the people in the world, but never mind, stick to your ideas. . |
Come to think of it, I think you're right.
My first job was in Gimcheon, which is a rather big city.
I asked the students in an advanced class if they ever met a foreigner who spoke any language besides English.
One of them had, on a trip to Seoul.
I asked the other students if they ever met even an English-speaking foreigner anywhere except right there in the English school.
None of them had. |
Not sure what your point is. The reverse is true as well. Go to Hicksville, USA (Alabama, Mississippi, etc) and ask any of the local schoolchildren if they've ever met a Korean-speaking foreigner. None of them will raise their hands. In those regions they think every Asian is Chinese anyway and you'll find the same level of stereotypes.
It's not a Korean-thing. |
As you say, in Hicksville, USA or any country, sure. In much of Asia, though, even large cities are like this. The exposure to other people/cultures simply isn't there. Two or three million is like a town in a lot of Asia. I'm in one now in China. It's over 99.9 % Chinese. Not exactly Vancouver.
Here's a personal anecdote that may mean something, not sure what though really. Years ago I met a girl in Seoul. She spoke English pretty well. She was studying to become a doctor at Korea University. We lost contact, but once I ran into her again 3 years later. She didn't have the same comfort level using English then as it had become rusty. She had not once used in those 3 years, not that she ever needed to. I guess the point is that even in Seoul, where she lived her whole life, I may have been the only foreigner she ever spoke to except maybe for when she might have had a foreign teacher. |
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Oreovictim
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| aboxofchocolates wrote: |
| crossmr wrote: |
This was brought up a few months ago when people were talking about that god awful "Surprise" TV show. That is just an abortion. |
Do people refer to crappy tv as abortions now, or did you mean aberration? |
Anything utterly crappy that is just truly bad can be referred to as such. I rarely use it but feel its appropriate for this show.
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Ha-ha! I work on Surprise. I don't know who told you that it's possible to make over 1,000,000W for a single day's work, but that's not true at all. It sounds like something a foreigner would say to a Korean chick that he had just met.
I remember a former coworker asking me what I was doing for the weekend, and I told him that I'd be working on Surprise. He said something to the extent of, "I don't see how people can waste their time, humiliating themselves on those rubbish shows. Where's your self-respect?" So how did this guy spend his weekends? Getting hammered at the bar while watching "the rugby game" with his homophobic jock friends.
To me, it's a nice change-of-pace. I've investigated murders, been interrogated by the police, killed on the battlefield (my students love it when I die), hijacked on a plane, etc. But if it gets to the point where I have to dance around in a tutu or play the "evil foreigner who preys on helpless Korean women", then I'll know that it's time to stop. |
The 1,000,000 wasn't for surprise. People were discussing various shows and that range I listed was (from my memory) for the various shows and opportunities that some people had listed.
Everyone who watches rugby is homophobic? |
Well, no. Let me take that back. Rugby fans aren't homophobic, maybe just the alpha-male, uber jocks that I've had the privilege of meeting tend to be. |
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DorkothyParker
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Location: Jeju
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| These fools are lowering the public perception and estimation of foreigners. In a country where 99% of koreans have had no actual contact with a foreigner, this becomes a serious matter. |
I've said it in other threads and I'll say it again, should an individual be required to represent an entire group of people? Example: Does Paris Hilton writhing with a cheeseburger on a car degrade all women or just Paris Hilton?
I don't fully object to your view, but I find the situation highly ambiguous.
I honestly don't know what the right answer is, and I think that's because there is none. The only hope is that with time portrayals will diversify to the point that no one clown or creep is meant to reflect an entire culture.
I can't think of any way to solve this except either A. Blatant censorship which I am firmly against or B. If all white people decided not to be on shows. But then they wouldn't appear anywhere would they?
Thinking as I type, I do think that even negative portrayals open the door for more human 3-dimensional roles in the future (as was the case with black folks in the US and currently homosexuals).
Still, as a *very* low level performer, I never saw any roles as anything other than a challenge or a good time. Thin-skins be damned. |
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samcheokguy
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Location: Samcheok G-do
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly as the above said
Why WOULDN"T a Moldovan dude play a stoner rapist American English teacher?
Peter Lorie played a pedophile Jewish dude in M. Now THAT was a dangerous role to play in the 1920's.
-And plenty of american movies feature americans in positive roles. So it doesn't really bother me. Film is not journalism. |
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure they did not come to korea to be on TV.....but along the way they made some connections and friends and one thing led to another.
Hey, no matter how goofy they are...and all of them are...every single one of them is goofy...they are making money!
They sure won't be on TV in their home country making money like in korea!
And I am sure that if you had the chance to be on TV and make money...you would! Even when you look stupid! |
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halfmanhalfbiscuit
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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Getting an Eastern European to play a sex pest or potential paedophile is unwittingly playing into the hands of a irresponsible gutter press which is both portraying something which isn't even accurate and would be illegal visa wise. That's what pisses me off.
And the annoying Saffer on "Talkshow with Beauties" with her naesung routine.
Other than that, meh. What can you really expect from Korean TV? |
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Harpeau
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Location: Coquitlam, BC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Thiuda wrote: |
I do what I do because I enjoy it; because it has provided me with opportunities, and because I'm learning a lot. I don't think it is appropriate for someone else to label me a fool because they feel their image has been tarnished in some way. Are you really so insecure that you feel it necessary to attack others for the work they do, simply because you feel it reflects negatively on your image?
It seems to me that those of you who decry foreigners on Korean TV underestimate the audience, overestimate the importance of TV shows and care too much about image. Try and peel yourself away from the TV once in a while and remember: The world does not revolve around you. |
I guess you make some good points here. I'm just wondering if there is a line that you think you would not cross as an actor. Eg. A director says: We want you to portray this evil foreigner in Hongdae going after OUR women. I personally would find it difficult to go through and would likely walk off the set. Any thoughts on that?? |
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Robot_Teacher
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Location: Robotting Around the World
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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I was on KBS a couple months ago on a show about foreigners learning Korean and living in rural areas where the locals are not yet accustomed to foreigners. Instead of constructively discussing why we have so many difficulties speaking Korean and why so many foreigners give up as communication suffers to the point there is no relations locally outside of the classroom, they made a big laughing joke out of us, even dramatizing this fact with music suggesting incompetent clowns being way out of place implying a comedy that just isn't funny in real life as they're not laughing about what is comical, they're laughing to deal with insecurities. It pissed me off, becuase they told us on short notice it would be a discussion about the language barriars, foreigners trying to speak Korean, cultural differences, and how we could both do better to understand each others perspective from two very different cultures to try to be friends rather than avoiding and ingoring each other.
I won't accept another TV show invitation unless they're paying me good money to be an actor or it's a game show. 
Last edited by Robot_Teacher on Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| I won't accept another TV show invitation unless they're paying me good money to be an actor or it's a game show. Laughing |
You're on an E2 aren't you? unless you have permission from immigration you might not want to accept another job to be on TV period. Rumour has it they have in the past checked the credits of shows featuring foreigners to look for immigration violations. |
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Robot_Teacher
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Location: Robotting Around the World
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
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| I won't accept another TV show invitation unless they're paying me good money to be an actor or it's a game show. Laughing |
You're on an E2 aren't you? unless you have permission from immigration you might not want to accept another job to be on TV period. Rumour has it they have in the past checked the credits of shows featuring foreigners to look for immigration violations. |
It's OK to do unpaid interviews and other unpaid activities such as talking to people. Isn't it? It's probably OK to do an unpaid activity as long as you don't say anything controversial such as making unwarranted claims about financial markets and companies and negative political statements against the government and president. That I won't do as it's obvious freedom of speech does not exist and it's not my country as you, Korean or foreigner, can get in big trouble. I don't ever talk about those with Koreans; only cultural differences. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Robot_Teacher wrote: |
It's OK to do unpaid interviews and other unpaid activities such as talking to people. Isn't it? It's probably OK to do an unpaid activity as long as you don't say anything controversial such as making unwarranted claims about financial markets and companies and negative political statements against the government and president. That I won't do as it's obvious freedom of speech does not exist and it's not my country as you, Korean or foreigner, can get in big trouble. I don't ever talk about those with Koreans; only cultural differences. |
As long as you're not getting paid, but be careful, they might not always believe you didn't get paid. This is why the whole "volunteering to teach english" thing was so sketchy. It wasn't that it was illegal its that no one would believe you're volunteering when you can get 50,000W minimum from just about anyone going to do it.
If its an interview they probably don't expect money if its a long show they might expect you were compensated in someway for it.
Anything remotely political is also prohibited on most visas. Which is why you always head the other direction if you ever see anything resembling a protest. As with anything you're generally okay, but all it takes is someone to not like you, or some over zealous and bored immi officer to decide to start flipping through credits.. |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Harpeau wrote: |
| I guess you make some good points here. I'm just wondering if there is a line that you think you would not cross as an actor. Eg. A director says: We want you to portray this evil foreigner in Hongdae going after OUR women. I personally would find it difficult to go through and would likely walk off the set. Any thoughts on that?? |
If I were asked to act the part of the evil foreigner, I would decline. Just like you, I would find it impossible to be part of a show that was blatantly xenophobic. On the other hand, I might very well take the opportunity to participate in an entertainment show in which I don't conform to what Julius, Van Islander et al. consider to be "honorable, dignified or attractive TV roles."
Who are Julius and Co. to draw up the standards of behaviour for non-Koreans in Korea? Who are they to call people, who don't conform to their ideals of TV behaviour, "freaks on display?" By calling these people freaks, fools and media whores they're doing exactly what they accuse the media of doing - demeaning them. |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Acting like a tit on TV is not harmless fundraising, it projects the idea that foreigners are a joke.Who has to live with the consequences? the long term ESLers in this country. The idiots over here to make quick cash on holiday visas simply count the money and head back to the airport after a couple months. |
I doubt very much that Koreans watching what they know to be crap TV would feel foreigners are a joke because of their participation on a TV show. Give the audience some credit, they're not the ignorant masses you make them out to be.
Julius, you write very negatively about others. Koreans are stupid for trying to speak English to you and other foreigners are stupid for acting like fools and idiots. Try not to compensate your feelings of inadequacy by demeaning others. Before posting your drivel, consider the following:
1) Finding a hobby aside from Dave's;
2) Uninformed commentary makes you look ignorant;
3) Counselling;
4) Killing time by reading a newspaper, rather than posting;
5) Observing and reflecting before typing;
6) Freeing yourself of negative stereotypes;
7) Feeling good about yourself. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| DorKothyparker wrote: |
| I've said it in other threads and I'll say it again, should an individual be required to represent an entire group of people? |
No: but what we have here is a lot of individuals that collectively make up a group, and represent an entire group of people.
| Quote: |
| The only hope is that with time portrayals will diversify to the point that no one clown or creep is meant to reflect an entire culture. |
Exactly. The problem is not with the occasional clown, its that there are only clowns.
| Samcheokguy wrote: |
| it doesn't really bother me. Film is not journalism. |
Koreans don't have the experience or mindset to be able to distinguish what is real and what isn't. They tend to accept anything in the media as genuine, without much questioning. There is hardly a nation on earth more susceptible to brainwashing as are the Koreans.
| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| And I am sure that if you had the chance to be on TV and make money...you would! Even when you look stupid! |
I've had several offers to work on Korean TV, which I have turned down. Not everything is about money. Most foreigners who have lived in Korea for a while feel a responsibility to try and improve the situation, not become tools of the xenophobic korean media circus.
| robot_teacher wrote: |
| I was on KBS a couple months ago on a show about foreigners learning Korean and living in rural areas where the locals are not yet accustomed to foreigners. Instead of constructively discussing why we have so many difficulties speaking Korean and why so many foreigners give up as communication suffers to the point there is no relations locally outside of the classroom, they made a big laughing joke out of us, even dramatizing this fact with music suggesting incompetent clowns being way out of place implying a comedy that just isn't funny in real life as they're not laughing about what is comical, they're laughing to deal with insecurities. |
..what I suspected. They're not trying to learn about other cultures or provide helpful or responsible stories to the public. Instead they're avoiding meaningful contact with the foreign perspective/ experience by portraying and patronising foreigners as a joke. its no different to their portrayal of animals in their pathetic mocking shows. Its to hide their insecurities/ ignorance -and shore up their prejudices.
This is done by giving false information about what is involved then changing the contract at the last minute. But even knowing what they're getting themselves into, many foreigners are still prepared to demean themselves because "hey I'm on TV".  |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:45 am Post subject: |
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Hello, Robot-Teacher!
As you probably gather from the other thread in which you recently posted, I have been disappointed because the Koreans are not more supportive of foreigners trying to learn their language.
If you are of similar feelings, try reading Japan's Modern Myth by Roiy Andrew Miller. That's where I got the passage which I quoted earlier in this thread, and that's where I got the story of the news correspondent which I cited in the other thread.
The book is about Japan, but it seems that most of what it says about Japan is true of Korea, too. According to this book, the Japanese language and the Japanese race are equated in the minds of the Japanese people, so they cannot imagine anyone racially different from themselves learning their language.
On page 154, it says:
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In most cultures, a foreigner who makes the attempt to learn the language of the society in question is thought, by the members of that society and by the native speakers of that language, to be providing a significant indication of the high esteem in which he or she holds both the society and the language. The geustre of learning a foreign language is conseuqently usually interpreted eslewhere in the world as one respecting, if not actually honoring, both the society and the language in question. Put more simply, the members of most societies are pleased when a foreigner tries to learn and use their language, and they reward such a foreigner with approval in direct proportion to the degree of success achieved with the same.
Thus, it always comes as a particularly rude awakening when the foreigner who is resident in Japan for any length of time finally realizes that Japanese society behaves in a fashion that is directly contrary to this general rule. Japanese society usually distrusts and dislikes any attempt by a foreigner to learn and use the Japanese language. |
After staying in South America for over a year, it came as a shock to me that the people here in Korea are not as supportive as the people of South America. I have expressed this surprise here on this forum, and all I got was "You're just paranoid" and "You just have a chip on your shoulder." If I am imagining all this, at least someone else is imagining the same thing.
Hello, Oreovictim!
This is off the subject, but I still don't understand how your stag friends are homophobic. It seems to me that they are absolved of that accusation by virtue of being your stag friends.
I have always shied away from stag groups because I don't go for male interests. Instead of going for sports, I go for classical music. I would feel uncomfortable in a stag group because I wouldn't know how to act virile. I would feel afraid of using the H word when I should use the D word. I would feel afraid of ogling a foxy chick's boobs when I should ogle a foxy chick's buns. I would feel afraid of saying something unacceptable and being told, "Thay there, thweetie."
If there is anyone who is homophobic, it's me. |
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