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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: Is Obama Ceding Too Much Power to Congress? |
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After 5 months in office, Obama's governing style is becoming clearer. There is a quote from the Washington Post that brought up something that I've noticed but haven't worked out yet: (the topic of the article is the energy bill)
"When Obama entered the fray on May 5, summoning all 36 committee Democrats to the White House, he didn't make a single demand. Rather, participants say, he pointed to a portrait of Abraham Lincoln and said, "He had a chance to affect history. You, too, have a chance to affect history."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/29/AR2009062904175.html?nav=hcmodule
Since the days of FDR we've had presidents who typically dominate Congress, sometimes to the point of reducing the Legislative Branch to a rubber stamp. That clearly is not Obama's style.
What I haven't figured out yet is whether he is deliberately surrendering power to what the Constitution envisioned as the primary power or if it's just an artifact of him working to build a governing coaltion within the diversity of the Democratic Party. The first is a possibility since he is a constitutional lawyer and people have been complaining for decades about the concentration of power in the executive branch, but I've never seen anything about his thoughts on it. The second is also possible since the Dem congressional members have a wide range of philosophies and 'bipartisanship' could be stretched to mean that.
Has anyone else noticed this? |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know - hopefully he was just waiting for Al Franken to be officially seated in the Senate ... 
He's probably smart enough to see that the U.S. - and the whole world - face practically insurmountable problems regardless of what specific courses of action he or Congress take...
He may have backed off from trying to do too much and will settle for just doing enough to keep things together.
(Did I mention that "I don't know?"  ) |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| He's probably smart enough to see that the U.S. - and the whole world - face practically insurmountable problems regardless of what specific courses of action he or Congress take... |
Right. He has already done his damage, what with the bailouts and preventive detention and the continuance of Bush's foreign policies. Now he can just sit back and blame Congress for the domestic economic disasters waiting to happen. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:28 pm Post subject: Re: Is Obama Ceding Too Much Power to Congress? |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
What I haven't figured out yet is whether he is deliberately surrendering power to what the Constitution envisioned as the primary power or if it's just an artifact of him working to build a governing coaltion within the diversity of the Democratic Party. The first is a possibility since he is a constitutional lawyer and people have been complaining for decades about the concentration of power in the executive branch, but I've never seen anything about his thoughts on it. The second is also possible since the Dem congressional members have a wide range of philosophies and 'bipartisanship' could be stretched to mean that.
Has anyone else noticed this? |
In my observation, and his history seems to attest to it. He often tries to get as many people on board as possible, get their ideas all funneled into one, and use that energy to affect change.
It makes a lot of sense...you get a lot more done with more people behind something. If you are a 'lone ranger' type, you can't. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Yes, he's certainly demonstrated his willingness to hear all ideas which is why he encouraged ABC News to invite Republican opponents of his healthcare plans for his infomerical last week. 
Democrats in the House are most susceptible to the nutbag agenda of the far Left wing of the Party. They're also less moderate than their colleagues in the Senate. Same holds true at the opposite end of the spectrum for Republicans. Although at least they respect and try to actually appreciate the position of the Pentagon.
If you think Obama won't try to aggrandize power in the future, well, then you're really, really cutting him alot of slack. |
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Otus
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:01 am Post subject: |
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I bet he's doing all he can not to have another GOP revolution on his hands and therefore another Clinton administration for six years following. Not that it did Clinton much harm as far as it kept his admin. in check and he could take credit for some successful stuff he didn't initially intend to do i.e. balance the budget ....
With the health care looming again ... we wouldn't want to see history repeat itself any further ... |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:11 am Post subject: |
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He's always been a policy lightweight. That's not going to stop now.
But there's a great deal of wisdom to the direction he's taking. The Executive isn't supposed to write the laws, anyway. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| It makes a lot of sense...you get a lot more done with more people behind something. If you are a 'lone ranger' type, you can't. |
A good example of this is the Don't Ask, Don't Tell issue. 75% of the public is ready for the change, but Obama is still holding off. When the generals get on board, either he'll issue an executive order or ask Congress to repeal, either way, the GOP won't be able to use it against him in 2010 or 2012 as a culture war issue.
The reason the conservatives are increasingly irrelevant is illustrated by ManintheMiddle's post. They are simply unable to see what is happening right in front of them in the real world and continue to blather on about being 'susceptible to the nutbag agenda of the far Left wing of the Party' while the media is full of liberal angst about Obama compromising too much. Both cannot be true at the same time--it is just not possible for the left to be getting everything they want and be frustrated that they are not getting what they want at the same time.
| Quote: |
| But there's a great deal of wisdom to the direction he's taking. The Executive isn't supposed to write the laws, anyway. |
Should I put you down as subscribing to the first choice--that Obama is pulling back from the imperial presidency approach--and that he is a true conservative in that sense?
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| another GOP revolution on his hands |
Do you really think that is even possible in the present circumstances, given that there are no GOP policy alternatives at all on any of the issues facing the country?
PS:
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| If you think Obama won't try to aggrandize power in the future... |
So you agree that he hasn't so far, right? This looks like an good example of fear-mongering. First you cede that Obama is not dominating Congress...but he will. You know he will. Just wait. You know he's gonna do it. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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More perceived power to Congress is good for the Democrats if they get some things done they'll do better in the upcoming 2010 elections; and, at the same time, if public opinion or the economy continues to falter then it gives Congress just enough rope to hang itself when a scapegoat is needed, and Obama could then step in and be the knight who saves the day, acting boldly in the face of congressional wavering.
Obama wins either way.
Shrewd move. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| Yes, he's certainly demonstrated his willingness to hear all ideas which is why he encouraged ABC News to invite Republican opponents of his healthcare plans for his infomerical last week. |
The Republicans have no rebuttal worth hearing, he made the right choice in that regard. When trying to craft a public health system, compromising with a party who openly states they want a public health system to not work is ludicrious. |
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Otus
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Quote:
another GOP revolution on his hands
Do you really think that is even possible in the present circumstances, given that there are no GOP policy alternatives at all on any of the issues facing the country?
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I can still remember when it happened last time ... '94 . There was scarcely a whisper in the media much before it happened and it seemed to catch, at least the dem. administration, totally off guard.
There's a funny section in one chapter of Clinton's bio where he recalls George Stephanopoulos actually rolling around on the floor crying in front of the TV as the results were coming in.
The only Rep. policy issues that were getting much of a scrap of notice from the media before it happened were the Republican's opposition to Hillary's health care program - and their all out opposition to Hillary which doesn't seem to be a galvanizing issue any more. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Do you really think that is even possible in the present circumstances, given that there are no GOP policy alternatives at all on any of the issues facing the country?
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Don't know about "GOP" but there sure as hell are conservative solutions to just about everything. Anyways, the 1.8 trillion deficit will become 2.5 given the declining income tax receipts. No way you're going to finance that without the Fed monetizing it.
It's over. America (like Britain and many others) can't afford her government. Those things that can't continue, won't. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| But there's a great deal of wisdom to the direction he's taking. The Executive isn't supposed to write the laws, anyway. |
Should I put you down as subscribing to the first choice--that Obama is pulling back from the imperial presidency approach--and that he is a true conservative in that sense?
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Its more complicated than him simply being an Imperial President or not. But in this aspect he seems to have an agreeable understanding of the role of the Executive. There's other stuff he's doing that seems to me he does not. |
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lithium
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It makes a lot of sense...you get a lot more done with more people behind something. If you are a 'lone ranger' type, you can't. |
A good example of this is the Don't Ask, Don't Tell issue. 75% of the public is ready for the change, but Obama is still holding off. When the generals get on board, either he'll issue an executive order or ask Congress to repeal, either way, the GOP won't be able to use it against him in 2010 or 2012 as a culture war issue.
The reason the conservatives are increasingly irrelevant is illustrated by ManintheMiddle's post. They are simply unable to see what is happening right in front of them in the real world and continue to blather on about being 'susceptible to the nutbag agenda of the far Left wing of the Party' while the media is full of liberal angst about Obama compromising too much. Both cannot be true at the same time--it is just not possible for the left to be getting everything they want and be frustrated that they are not getting what they want at the same time.
| Quote: |
| But there's a great deal of wisdom to the direction he's taking. The Executive isn't supposed to write the laws, anyway. |
Should I put you down as subscribing to the first choice--that Obama is pulling back from the imperial presidency approach--and that he is a true conservative in that sense?
| Quote: |
| another GOP revolution on his hands |
Do you really think that is even possible in the present circumstances, given that there are no GOP policy alternatives at all on any of the issues facing the country?
PS:
| Quote: |
| If you think Obama won't try to aggrandize power in the future... |
So you agree that he hasn't so far, right? This looks like an good example of fear-mongering. First you cede that Obama is not dominating Congress...but he will. You know he will. Just wait. You know he's gonna do it. |
You realize that over 40% of the country considers themselves Conservative I hope? Show us, sir, where you get the percentages from that you readily quote. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| lithium wrote: |
You realize that over 40% of the country considers themselves Conservative I hope? Show us, sir, where you get the percentages from that you readily quote. |
And about 60% of that 40% aren't really 'Conservative,' but simply radical right. |
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