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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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 Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Shincheon_Blues wrote: |
CLG,
If you lie up front to the teacher who'll be replacing you to get your letter of release, you will have to live with your conscience and reputation. You already know what the proper thing to do is, so why bother asking? |
This post is a special thank you to Shincheon_Blues.
He is the one who made my avatar.
I do not know him, nor asked him to do it. It was a surprize I received in my email.
And, back when I was in the USA and had cartoon nectwork. "Cow and Chicken" was my favorite show, And, in the avatar is 'Chicken' The star of "Cow and Chicken"
Thanks again. 
............................................Chicken
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 1:10 am Post subject: |
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I'd LIE like a shot. The aussie recruiter who lured me into my first job here did, and all newbies must undergo the same suffering. Why? because only after you've been here a while do you deserve to get the better jobs.
I look after Number 1. I don't bother trying to take care of the wellbeing of others much (usually gets me into trouble),- never mind a complete stranger. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:12 am Post subject: |
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I know for a fact that the foreign teacher I talked to on the phone before I came to Korea to work at my first hogwon lied to me. The boss offered him W300,000 to blow enough sunshine up my butt to get me to sign. He admitted to it about a month later.
Would I do the same? No, but then again neither hogwon I worked for was foolish enough to try to use me as a reference. I'm a bit of a loose cannon. |
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katydid
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Location: Here kitty kitty kitty...
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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I would not lie about the school, and I would be totally ignore my director if he told me (or gave me "advice") on what to say.
My roommate last year at the hagwan was a real bitch, and we never got along after the first 6 weeks or so of living together. But when her replacement asked about me, she told her "we never had any problems." Now, I'm not sure if she was lying, or telling the truth, as you don't normally have problems with someone you never interact with, but if it had been me, I might have said yes we did and tell the person why, not in a sense to bad mouth the other person (even though Roomie 1 was straight from hell) but to give the person a sense of what I want in a roommate.
Of course, when you get shared housing, the point is moot. The school isn't looking for roommate compatibility first, but a teacher, and will throw anyone together. The point is to establish how each person thinks and lives their lives well before they actually do live together so they can make compromises. But if I *were* to live with a freaky waygook, I'd consider that as being part of the equation as to whether I take the job or not.
If anyone PMed me about my last two jobs you can believe I would be totally straight about how I felt, taking for granted that the person asking knows what I say is my opinion, is subjective, and therefore might not be part of his own experience if her starts to work there. |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Once again I repeat. The only teachers who get bent, are the ones who bend over in the first place. Pure and simple. Most people are lazy/don't know about the resources they have. Yes the legal deck is stacked against foreigners. But those of us who have taken the time and effort to make contacts here, find it far easier to get what we are owned. Plus for most of us who actually put time and effort into our teaching, we find the boss appreciates that, especially if you bring in new students.
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I know of two people who did this and got NOTHING in return, yes you can still do everything right and get screwed for the right price.
clg |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Once again I repeat. The only teachers who get bent, are the ones who bend over in the first place. Pure and simple. Most people are lazy/don't know about the resources they have. Yes the legal deck is stacked against foreigners. But those of us who have taken the time and effort to make contacts here, find it far easier to get what we are owned. Plus for most of us who actually put time and effort into our teaching, we find the boss appreciates that, especially if you bring in new students.
Of course there ARE jerks out there. This allows me to make another of my favorite points. DO YOUR RESEARCH PEOPLE!. |
This is very easy to say to someone who is already here. Unfortunately, if you are looking from your home country the amount of research you can actually do is limited. I got my first job over the internet, and there was nothing to find about it because only three people had ever worked there before. I talked to one of the current teachers, but he lied through his teeth for 20 pieces of silver. There was only so much I could have done.
Situations also change. At my second school I took over the job of a trusted friend. The first 6 months were pretty good. Then the supervisor left, and little did I know how many of the better things about the school she was responsible for. It's impossible to predict what can happen later.
Teaching well and attracting students is also no guarantee. IMHO, many hogwon owners actually resent that their businesses are so reliant on foreigners. This resentment will come out one way or another. In addition, an experienced and qualified teacher becomes an expensive teacher. A crappy teacher is disposable, and therefore easier to deal with, and in many ways more likeable. For any businessperson with a long term vision, none of this is logical. But how many hogwon owners do you know of who are logical or possess long term vision?
But Urban Myth, you're dead right about one thing: do your research and find out about your legal rights here, and the other tricks you can have up your sleeve (tax office, getting students' parents phone numbers, make adult Korean friends, etc.). The legal system is tilted against us, so we have to be prepared to protect ourselves because no one else is going to do it for us. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| crazylemongirl wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Once again I repeat. The only teachers who get bent, are the ones who bend over in the first place. Pure and simple. Most people are lazy/don't know about the resources they have. Yes the legal deck is stacked against foreigners. But those of us who have taken the time and effort to make contacts here, find it far easier to get what we are owned. Plus for most of us who actually put time and effort into our teaching, we find the boss appreciates that, especially if you bring in new students.
!. |
I know of two people who did this and got NOTHING in return, yes you can still do everything right and get screwed for the right price.
clg |
Thanks for reinforcing the first point in my post. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| Son Deureo! wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Once again I repeat. The only teachers who get bent, are the ones who bend over in the first place. Pure and simple. Most people are lazy/don't know about the resources they have. Yes the legal deck is stacked against foreigners. But those of us who have taken the time and effort to make contacts here, find it far easier to get what we are owned. Plus for most of us who actually put time and effort into our teaching, we find the boss appreciates that, especially if you bring in new students.
Of course there ARE jerks out there. This allows me to make another of my favorite points. DO YOUR RESEARCH PEOPLE!. |
This is very easy to say to someone who is already here. Unfortunately, if you are looking from your home country the amount of research you can actually do is limited. I got my first job over the internet, and there was nothing to find about it because only three people had ever worked there before. I talked to one of the current teachers, but he lied through his teeth for 20 pieces of silver. There was only so much I could have done.
Situations also change. At my second school I took over the job of a trusted friend. The first 6 months were pretty good. Then the supervisor left, and little did I know how many of the better things about the school she was responsible for. It's impossible to predict what can happen later.
Teaching well and attracting students is also no guarantee. IMHO, many hogwon owners actually resent that their businesses are so reliant on foreigners. This resentment will come out one way or another. In addition, an experienced and qualified teacher becomes an expensive teacher. A crappy teacher is disposable, and therefore easier to deal with, and in many ways more likeable. For any businessperson with a long term vision, none of this is logical. But how many hogwon owners do you know of who are logical or possess long term vision?
But Urban Myth, you're dead right about one thing: do your research and find out about your legal rights here, and the other tricks you can have up your sleeve (tax office, getting students' parents phone numbers, make adult Korean friends, etc.). The legal system is tilted against us, so we have to be prepared to protect ourselves because no one else is going to do it for us. |
Granted for a first-timer doing proper research is a bit hard. But I was tailoring my pitch to the audience here on Dave's and most of us tend to have 2 or 3 years experience.
As far as teaching well and attracting students, only a vindictive fool would fire a teacher who makes him or her money. Granted if you piss off the director you are likely to get fired, but then who's fault is it? Most hakwon owners may not have a sense of logic or long term vision. But from my experience and through the second-hand stories here, it sounds like most possess a fairly keen sense of the bottom line. You make money for the director and in 9 out of 10 cases your job is 'fairly' safe. As for the tenth case, that's where having Korean friends and relatives can come in strongly. |
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