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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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 Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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I wish the first video:
were shown to everyone in school at perhaps around age 12.
The second video I thought was kind of silly (though the people who find "proof" for religion in their food items are far more silly)
To this:
| ED209 wrote: |
| It is religion that crowned humans as master over beasts. |
I would argue that it was probably more in line with "I'm hungry and those things probably taste good. I'm going to use this tree branch and club it over the head"
| ED209 wrote: |
| Atheism isn't here to offer an understanding of the universe, it's simply free from the dogma of religion. Which carries the true narrow-mindedness of 'there are no new ideas, only what we have in this book!' |
Which remember, is an extremely religiously fundamentalist viewpoint. As I mentioned before, I wholly recognize and accept that atheist viewpoint and think it's too bad that others don't. Of course, I would be careful to recognize a difference in religions/denominations/sects of tradition rather than those adhering to a proscribed law that humans are expected to be able to follow line by line under threat of posthumous punishment. Of course, any religion does require the acceptance of certain irrationalities and faith in a particular worldview.
I think that in both cases, religious or not, people can be open minded. It's the finger pointing and prideful zealousness of anyone who condescenidingly argues for something they cannot prove that causes issues (and yes, that almost always occurs on the religious side). Which is why I choose not to care about what others believe. Being openminded would also mean recognizing that people hold personal beliefs for whatever reason, be they social, cultural, religious, philosophical, etc.
That said, I greatly appreciate religious traditions, my own religious traditions, dialogue with people of other religious traditions, and the sheer awesomeness of what science discovers and how it compares and contrasts with different religions. I personally don't believe that science negates religion, but that based on scientific findings a lot of people have good reason, from what can be seen, researched, and understood, not to believe in any religion because it really does not make rational sense. However, people have a natural right to believe in whatever they want to and to assemble peacefully around whatever belief they share. Humanity really seems to have a hard time with that. |
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earthbound14
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think we need to argue any further...that was great. Thanx. |
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wesharris
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| earthbound14 wrote: |
Christianity is a vile religion when compared to Buddhism. If there is one thing I hate about missionaries, it's the conversion of Korea...what exactly were they saving them from? A peaceful life of Buddhism, the world's most peaceful religion?
Christianity is aggressive, exclusionary and spiteful despite some of the great things within it's teachings.
At least it seems that sort of thing (violence against Buddhism)is not occuring anymore in Korea.
"If you have a particular faith or religion, that is good. But you can survive without it." Dalai Lama |
What's your point ?
And you're forgetting Islam. Much more violent than Christianity.
_+_+
Wes |
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earthbound14
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| wesharris wrote: |
| earthbound14 wrote: |
Christianity is a vile religion when compared to Buddhism.
Christianity is aggressive, exclusionary and spiteful despite some of the great things within it's teachings.
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What's your point ?
And you're forgetting Islam. Much more violent than Christianity.
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That is my point.
Sure we could argue that Islam has been more violent than the Christianity...but I thought Christianity was about forgiving, not pointing fingers.
Who really care who was worse. My point still stands as is. If you wish to debate that, then bring something interesting to the table. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: Religion |
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earthbound14 wrote:
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| I think you need to re-read my posts. |
I went right back to the original source posted by the OP. It's a Hindu website, vilifying Christianity, & full of blatant hatemongering. Which is pushing a political agenda that is far removed from what Hinduism is all about. Islam does the same too, at times, as did/does Christianity. I'm thinking Central & South America here, & the destruction of the Aztec & Inca empires by Christian Spaniards. All 3 religions are way off track, on the love, peace, & tolerance tenets, of their respective religious doctrines.
earthbound14: we are actually in violent agreement, on a lot of points. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Is anyone else having a good chuckle at wesharris' avator in the medst of this discussion? |
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earthbound14
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:24 am Post subject: Re: Religion |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
Actually, all the mainstream religions teach good things: love, peace, & tolerance.
There are also Buddhist terrorists.
I went right back to the original source posted by the OP. It's a Hindu website, vilifying Christianity, & full of blatant hatemongering.
earthbound14: we are actually in violent agreement, on a lot of points.
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1) I fully agree with you that all mainstream religions teach good things, I have nothing but state this in my posts...which is why I asked you to reread my posts.
2) I am aware that many horrible things have been done in the name of all religions including Buddhism. But let's be honest...buddhist terrorists? If that were the case than Tibetan Buddhists would be suicide bombing the Chinese. They are not doing so under the orders of their religious leader, the Dalai Lama has preached nothing but kindness. The only other example I have is that of Burma. But again, they have been denounced by many, and many Buddhists within the country have been killed for standing against the government. In the grand scheme of things it would be pretty easy to say that Buddhists have been the most peaceful of all religious groups...it doesn't take much research to find this out. Religions are often used by states to do horrible things. Religions themselves have many great teachings.
3) Yes the web site is targetting Christianity. That isn't to say that the facts used are suddenly untrue. While I would not wish to chase down and harm anyone for having a religion I can still view the facts for an issue other than to support Hinduism. A fact is a fact, just as a sword is a sword, whether it being used for defense or to atttack. In this case the facts have been used to comment on how Korean Christianity has aggressively targetted Buddhism. A religion that has been pretty open to Christianity coming here in the first place. In most cases Buddhist do not ask that you convert, nor do they preach. They will teach to those who are interested. This is a basic element of Buddhism. An element lacking within far too many Christians. I would not support any Hindu who wishes to do harm to Christians and more than I would support a Christian who wishes to do harm to a Buddhist. Or vice versa.
4) reread my posts, I don't think we really disagree that much...except perhaps you support Christians regardless of the situation while I do not. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
Being openminded would also mean recognizing that people hold personal beliefs for whatever reason, be they social, cultural, religious, philosophical, etc.
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Nobody disputes that people do, and ought to if they wish, hold personal beliefs for whatever reason. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:27 am Post subject: Religion |
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The Urban Myth: �There are no Buddhist Terrorists��all religions have terrorists:
http://rupeenews.com/about/muhammad-in-the-christian-context-concentrating-on-the-commonalities-between-the-abrahamic-faiths-the-arian-influences-on-islam-the-muslim-influences-on-martin-luther-locke-and-jefferson/the-urban-myth-there-are-no-buddhist-terroristsall-religions-have-terrorists/
I'm no expert, but I recall academic lectures by other students, who'd researched the topic, on historical incidents of Buddhist Terrorism. Granted, it's not so common today, but has definitely occurred in the past. If you look, you'll find academic articles, without the sensationalism.
From the above article:
| Quote: |
1) The Sinhalese-Tamil (Buddhist-Hindu) civil war in Sri Lanka has of course taken a toll of thousands of lives, and as of last week was on the cover story of all major news organizations. The Sri Lankan government and the Tamils are both accused of terror tactics and committing atrocities.
2) The Cambodian killing fields were red in blood, not because the Khmers were docile Buddhists.
3) The violence perpetuated in Buddhist Vietnam between rivals (US as well as Vietnamese) was more violent than any we have seen in recent times.
4) Where was Mahayana Buddhism during the Sun Yet Sun and Maoist civil war?
5) Where was Buddhist �ahimsa� (non-violence) during the Cultural Revolution?
6) Why was Buddhist-Taoist philosophy unable to �to fill the poor with greater optimism about their lot� during the Japanese invasion of Korea?
7) Why was Buddhist philosophy in hiding during the rape of Nanking by Buddhist (Japanese) soldiers?
8. Why was the �enlightenment� absent during the abduction of 300,000 Korean women by Buddhist (Japanese) soldiers in Korea?
9) Why doesn�t Mahayana Buddhist-Taoist philosophy stop the genocide of Uighurs?
10) The human rights records of Laos, and Burma are not written in gold in the history books of tolerance and enlightenment.
11) ) The Thai massacres of Muslims in Thailand should not be a reason to criticize all Buddhists!
All Buddhist countries have seen unprecedented violence in the past 70 years. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous! Ankya knows well, that neither Islam, nor Hinduism, nor Sikhism, nor Judaism, nor Buddhist nor Christianity has a monopoly on terror or violence or genocide.
It is not the religion, but politics, injustice, colonialism, and occupation that create violence. |
Now where have we both heard that before? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYdnkUbzgRU
"Non-violent" Buddhist monks rioting in the streets and looting banks
Last edited by chris_J2 on Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| djsmnc wrote: |
Being openminded would also mean recognizing that people hold personal beliefs for whatever reason, be they social, cultural, religious, philosophical, etc.
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Nobody disputes that people do, and ought to if they wish, hold personal beliefs for whatever reason. |
Some do! The Soviets, China (at times), radical evangelicals of every stripe, Muslim terrorists, the Borg |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:30 am Post subject: |
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The so-called persecution of Christians in India is largely a case of biased reporting and political corruption. The following article was written by a self-proclaimed Christian who has lived in India for 30 years ...
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/christian_persecution_in_india.htm |
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earthbound14
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Religion |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
| Quote: |
1) The Sinhalese-Tamil (Buddhist-Hindu) civil war in Sri Lanka has of course taken a toll of thousands of lives, and as of last week was on the cover story of all major news organizations. The Sri Lankan government and the Tamils are both accused of terror tactics and committing atrocities.
2) The Cambodian killing fields were red in blood, not because the Khmers were docile Buddhists.
3) The violence perpetuated in Buddhist Vietnam between rivals (US as well as Vietnamese) was more violent than any we have seen in recent times.
4) Where was Mahayana Buddhism during the Sun Yet Sun and Maoist civil war?
5) Where was Buddhist �ahimsa� (non-violence) during the Cultural Revolution?
6) Why was Buddhist-Taoist philosophy unable to �to fill the poor with greater optimism about their lot� during the Japanese invasion of Korea?
7) Why was Buddhist philosophy in hiding during the rape of Nanking by Buddhist (Japanese) soldiers?
8. Why was the �enlightenment� absent during the abduction of 300,000 Korean women by Buddhist (Japanese) soldiers in Korea?
9) Why doesn�t Mahayana Buddhist-Taoist philosophy stop the genocide of Uighurs?
10) The human rights records of Laos, and Burma are not written in gold in the history books of tolerance and enlightenment.
11) ) The Thai massacres of Muslims in Thailand should not be a reason to criticize all Buddhists!
It is not the religion, but politics, injustice, colonialism, and occupation that create violence. |
Now where have we both heard that before?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYdnkUbzgRU
"Non-violent" Buddhist monks rioting in the streets and looting banks |
You do not label WW1 or WW2 Christian wars do you?
Why would you label The Cambodian Conflict, The Vietnamese War or, The Japanese occupation of Korea, The Maoist Civil War, or the socia political problems of Thailand (which to a certain extent has to do with Muslim uprising....not Buddhist persecution) Buddhist actions?
The Korean war was not a Christian War against Buddhists, nor was the Vietnamese War. They were wars for power that had little to do with religion. Many people of all faithes protested these wars.
As for the Buddhist monks rampaging in Tibet....umm the Chinese stole their country and persecuted them. Their leader is in hiding and preaches non violence while the Chinese create smear campaignes. What you are watching is likely faked propoganda from the Chinese media, and if it isn't, I don't think I could blame them for fighting back. Buddhists are allowed to fight to protect themselves you know....Kung-fu, Taekwondo, Thai Chi, Karate...all have roots in Buddhism.
Christianity preaches that if you do not follow what I follow, you will go to hell, so I must go out into the world and change you so that I might be a better person. Hardly a kind thing to do, and the key reason I do not like Christianity in Korea. It has shown great disrespect for the existing religion of Korea and the Korean people while Christianity as a whole has generally failed to learn anything from those they change. Christianity is closed and ignorant book that does little to grow.
What Christians should be doing, is helping people (which many do...my fave folks down at Habitat for Humanity) without asking for a conversion, they should teach and not preach to those who seek teaching, they should learn rather than remain closed to new thoughts, religions and ideas, they should go out and offer light to the world not ultimatums that use black mail and closed mindedness.
There are many great Christians in the world who do just those things, but unfortunately there are far too many, a majority it could be argued that do not. It is because of them that I distance myself from Christianity and actually dislike Christianity. I would not follow any religion that brings so much darkness to the world when it has so much more possibility to bring the light it preaches about. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Religion |
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| earthbound14 wrote: |
Christianity preaches that if you do not follow what I follow, you will go to hell, so I must go out into the world and change you so that I might be a better person. Hardly a kind thing to do, and the key reason I do not like Christianity in Korea. It has shown great disrespect for the existing religion of Korea and the Korean people while Christianity as a whole has generally failed to learn anything from those they change. Christianity is closed and ignorant book that does little to grow.
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I would argue that it's not Christianity that preaches that but preachers of Christianity who preach that. You are referring to rampant and often unbridled proselytism
I didn't read anything else with any interest on this site, but this comparison is pretty accurate |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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I have also felt that rather than setting beliefs at odds, it is in the best interests of believers to look at these examples (and not saying that they should feel compelled to lapse into some form of syncretism, but admire how the cultures absorbed, accepted, and shared beliefs):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Sutras
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daqin_Pagoda |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:45 am Post subject: |
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Since I'm still more-or-less a Hare Krishna at heart, I'm concerned about the influence of "Noahide Laws"...
Here's an excerpt from an article on a devotee website:
...The goyim or non-Jew will have to follow Noahide Law. Hamsavatar did not add the Noahide Laws, which have been accepted as the base of all civilized law in most countries like North and South America and Europe. We are the top of the list of no no�s in the Noahide Law. That is, no idol worship. In the Hasidic University website, there is a breakdown for idol worship, and we get a mention:
�Not to participate in worship ceremonies of Hinduism, Hare Krishna, or various �New Age� cult movements - including transcendental meditation or Yoga - even if no idol is physically present.� The punishment for idol worship by Noahide Law is death by stoning, and I can assure you this is not a nice death.�
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/07-09/editorials4759.htm |
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