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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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 Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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I love the question. Why won't the muslims simply integrate? Why don't they just let themselves be absorbed? Come on, really? Now I loathe radical islam just as much as the next guy but are you really going to cast aspersion on Islamic peoples simply because they aren't really willing to be absorbed by others?
Granted the situation isn't often reversed but would you ask the same question to Serbs, christian tribes in Africa or Hindus? If the Chinese one day came over and annexed Alaska would you ask them to just take it easy and get along with their new masters?
It is simply striking to me how seemingly educated people expect one course of action from those they deem inferior while simultaneaously, quite probably, believing that they themselves should never have to do the same.
The way of the world I suppose. Which leads me to believe incidents like this will never be erased from our common experiences.
Rebuttal or further comments not needed. I know the answer. Muslims are ALL backwards and evil. |
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prideofidaho
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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ytuque
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Location: I drink therefore I am!
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| ytuque wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
Why haven't these uighurs assimilated into Chinese society?
Sure they have probably been oppressed, but all the same this conflict resembles dozens of countries that have muslim minorities living amongst them. Because muslims never mesh peacefully into the societies they find themselves in...and ultimately when their numbers grow they start destroying their host. |
No, it's not the same. Uighurs aren't really a minority, but rather a single part of a language family with as much geographic spread as Chinese. It's kind of like asking why English speakers in Montreal or Spanish speakers in southern Texas don't assimilate.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Sprachfamilien_der_Welt_(non_Altai).png |
Actually, the Uighurs are a minority in China only because this region was seized in 1949 by the Peoples' Liberation Army. |
That's pretty much what I was saying. They're part of a larger ethnic and linguistic group that happens to be within a certain border instead of another.
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| In time, they will be absorbed by the Han Chinese which is also what the Chinese are doing to the Tibetans. |
Doubtful, for the reasons given above. The Tibetans are alone (except for Bhutan, not much help there); Turks have several independent countries either nearby or with a great deal of influence. Around 5 million speak Tibetan whereas around 200 million speak Turkic languages. |
There may be several independent countries inhabited by Turkic peoples, but the China's borders aren't really what you could describe as open. After 60 years, the Uighers are already a minority in their own land. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Me to mises:
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| The instigation began at a toy factory outside the city |
Self-correction: it occurred in a coastal city in Guangdong, not in the suburbs of Urumqi. Which shows you the reach of the Uighur diaspora, as tens of thousands have migrated out of Xinjiang in search of jobs in recent years. Most are unregistered workers and some have gained a reputation, often undeserved, for thievery. So while Muslim minorities in China like the Hui are largely accepted, the Uighurs are not.
yawarakaijiin responded to Julius:
| Quote: |
| Why won't the muslims simply integrate? Why don't they just let themselves be absorbed? Come on, really? Now I loathe radical islam just as much as the next guy but are you really going to cast aspersion on Islamic peoples simply because they aren't really willing to be absorbed by others? |
Well said, and in fact the PRC forceably relocated hundreds of thousands of Han Chinese from the eastern seaboard to Xinjiang after the Revolution. This migration has been a constant source of friction, not surprisingly, because the provincial government infrastructure is run by and favors Han. There is massive job discrimination in the public sector and few Uighurs are hired to work in the lucrative oil industry there. Moreover, while Uighurs are free to worship as Muslims, they are not free to practice their faith in the public school system. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| they are not free to practice their faith in the public school system. |
Bin Laden was "practising his faith" when he eliminated thousands of infidels. |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| they are not free to practice their faith in the public school system. |
Bin Laden was "practising his faith" when he eliminated thousands of infidels. |
Bin Laden. Wahabi extremist/wack job
Most Uighurs . Moderate Sunnis |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Think Blacks in the South under Jim Crow and you've got a rather fair comparison to the Uighur's plight. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| The more I learn about it, this isn't a "riot" as the NP called it or a "protest" as the WaPo calls it, but an organized racist attack on Han Chinese by Uighurs. This was followed on Tuesday by retaliations by Han on the muslims. |
You didn't learn much then.
1. Timeline in numerical order by event happening:
2. Han Chinese girl mistakenly walks into dorm for Uighur workers, screams and runs away
3. Angry Han Chinese man starts rumor about Uighurs gang raping a Chinese Han girl in their dorms
4. Mob of angry Han Chinese men savagely beat to death Uighurs on the streets of Guandong
5. Police stand by and watch, doing nothing
6. Uighurs demand police investigate, police do the bare minimal
7. Uighurs in Xinjiang protest peacefully and police tell them to move on, Uighurs refuse
8. Police attack unarmed Uighurs with live rounds
9. Uighurs return in larger numbers and go crazy, looting and attacking any Han Chinese they see
10. Army moves in, again live ammo is used
11. Han Chinese get upset, form a mob and beat Uighurs, police use tear gas to disperse Han Chinese
12. China blames "US-funded Terror Group" for starting the whole thing |
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Neil
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| Apparently the rape rumour was started on the internet by some former employee of the factory who was bitter about getting fired. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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prideofidaho
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:34 am Post subject: |
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^
Epic fail. Stop praying and things will get better. Maybe good advice to a nice little atheist like me, but come on. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| prideofidaho wrote: |
^
Epic fail. Stop praying and things will get better. Maybe good advice to a nice little atheist like me, but come on. |
It's not to stop praying. It's to stop large gatherings at a sensitive time. |
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prideofidaho
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Not looking to argue about little details, Big Bird, but it says plainly here that the ban was on Friday's prayer time:
taken from the article:
Earlier in the day, the authorities banned Friday Prayer at most mosques here to quell further unrest by Uighurs.
Also, the article above is different than the one I had linked to when I'd written that previous comment. Can't find the original article. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| prideofidaho wrote: |
Not looking to argue about little details, Big Bird, but it says plainly here that the ban was on Friday's prayer time:
taken from the article:
Earlier in the day, the authorities banned Friday Prayer at most mosques here to quell further unrest by Uighurs.
Also, the article above is different than the one I had linked to when I'd written that previous comment. Can't find the original article. |
Yeah - there was a ban on Friday prayer time at the Mosque - but the reason for the ban has nothing to do with prayer. The Chinese authorities aren't trying to stop them praying - just preventing them from congregating. |
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Rum Jungle
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: North Asia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
Ah, what are sceptics? Do they beat with scepters? 
If CCTV-9 even made mention of the riots, that's a major step forward for its unending propaganda machine. Then again, they don't want a repeat of the accusations and condemnation that followed in the wake of the Tibetan uprising before the Olympics.
When they release footage of police beating on Uighur women, arresting young boys, crowding hundreds if not thousands into jails in Urumqi, then I'll stand up and really take notice.
Meanwhile, the curfew is on, the Internet shut down in the region, and the police state crackdown with the local Party chief bleating now in full swing. |
Proud to be a sceptic or skeptik 
What looked like an urban riot now looks more like an attack on Han Chinese shopkeepers.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6677379.ece
The repression of the Uighur People...I fully support Amnesty International if the Chinese Authorities are arresting and detaining thousands in jails in Xinjiang. |
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