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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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 Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Great Speech and a positive reaction. Bill Cosby must be happy. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Now if only 75% of the black community would actually take that to heart and personalize it, they could really make some progress. I wish that whole deal would speed up a little. Unfortunately I've met a LOT of very obstinate black Americans that refuse to have personal integrity. Whites and many others too, but years of pain and discrimination have made it endemic among blacks. No question about it. Although I have my qualms with Obama, I do think he has the potential to be a strong role model/father figure for those who have never felt they really had one. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| It is a great speech. I especially like the last 10 minutes where he puts the 'pulpit' back in bully pulpit. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:22 am Post subject: |
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djsmnc noted:
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| Now if only 75% of the black community would actually take that to heart and personalize it, they could really make some progress. I wish that whole deal would speed up a little. |
Tell me about it, bruddah. The sad reality is that even Jackson was exhorting the Black community to follow this path two decades ago. I know: I heard him give the speech in person.
Obama realizes this, too, of course but he's not at liberty to say it for fear of offending "his people." This is one of the last vestiges of collective Black insecurity, i.e., this need to say things like a fist in a velvet glove. To his credit, Obama has pushed the issue more than any other liberal Black leader but even he clings to the demonstrably false notion that more money will improve Black academic performance. What will alter the attitude is shedding the victim mindset altogether and stop talking about the insidious legacy of racism. Asian Americans have experience racism for 150 years but look at how much better they perform academically despite often having English as a second language.
It was annoying to see Obama put on that "I'm wit u" front that usually White liberal pols like Hillary are apt to adopt whenever talking to a predominantly Black audience. While the crowd eats it up, it isn't genuine. The day that ALL Blacks welcome diversity of opinion by bringing the likes of Alan Keyes and Clarence Thomas into the fold is the day Blacks will be truly free. Even Obama (who refused to shake the latter's hand before his first address to a joint session of Congress), doesn't quite "get it" yet. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| Obama realizes this, too, of course but he's not at liberty to say it for fear of offending "his people." |
But of course he said it and said it quite explicitly. It is only the obsession with anti-Obamaism that prevents elements on the right from admitting it. If there is any speech Obama has ever given that should appeal to the right, this was it, but naturally many on the right can't see or admit it due to their knee-jerk responses. So far--but it won't last--some right-winger will show up to post about how most of the credit should go to the people who opposed the Civil Rights acts and endorsed Jim Crow because...I could never really follow their 'logic' which seems to go along the lines of 'America is great because I stopped beating my wife'. |
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phoneboothface
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| Unfortunately I've met a LOT of very obstinate black Americans that refuse to have personal integrity. |
Stormfront is calling your name............
Wow some racists showing their colors in this thread. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, Ya-Ta Boy:
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| But of course he said it and said it quite explicitly. It is only the obsession with anti-Obamaism that prevents elements on the right from admitting it. If there is any speech Obama has ever given that should appeal to the right, this was it, but naturally many on the right can't see or admit it due to their knee-jerk responses. So far--but it won't last--some right-winger will show up to post about how most of the credit should go to the people who opposed the Civil Rights acts and endorsed Jim Crow because...I could never really follow their 'logic' which seems to go along the lines of 'America is great because I stopped beating my wife'. |
Do you suffer from the liberal affliction of SRD, or selective reading disorder? I applauded his message but qualified it. Still can't take a little criticism of your demi-god, eh? Oh, wait, you were referring to "other" right-wingers, right? As I've often said, I'm a political moderate--a man in the middle. Idealogues of all stripes disgust me, so deal with it.
And Obama did pander to a certain extent to his base, like all pols. Get over it. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| phoneboothface wrote: |
| djsmnc wrote: |
| Unfortunately I've met a LOT of very obstinate black Americans that refuse to have personal integrity. |
Stormfront is calling your name............
Wow some racists showing their colors in this thread. |
Nothing racist about it. There is certainly a victim complex that leads to the expectation that there should be handouts. Work in any customer service profession in the US for an extended period of time and you'll have a mental statistic in no time, unless you decide to record everything that happens numerically. Why isn't it racist when some black people have personally pointed this out to me before? Is it racist to say that you are liable to get hurt in such and such a minority neighborhood that has higher incidences of crime? Is it because I'm describing the Other with apparent condescension? |
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AliciaJC
Joined: 10 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| Now if only 75% of the black community would actually take that to heart and personalize it, they could really make some progress. I wish that whole deal would speed up a little. Unfortunately I've met a LOT of very obstinate black Americans that refuse to have personal integrity. Whites and many others too, but years of pain and discrimination have made it endemic among blacks. No question about it. Although I have my qualms with Obama, I do think he has the potential to be a strong role model/father figure for those who have never felt they really had one. |
You want it to speed up, but human beings move very, very slowly. Wait about 2-3 generations or so and you will see start to see some solid changes.
You know what was messed up, was when he was talking about kids losing the spark in their eyes. Ive seen it and it hurts. |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| Nothing racist about it. There is certainly a victim complex that leads to the expectation that there should be handouts. |
That's been America in a nutshell ever since 9/11 regardless of skin color. I saw footage of a black lady in the Superdome in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina complaining about the flavor of her free sandwich, but these days, it seems like it's mostly whites asking for the money I earn on the farm in the blazing sun to bail out their failed business speculations in their air conditioned offices.
| djsmnc wrote: |
| Is it racist to say that you are liable to get hurt in such and such a minority neighborhood that has higher incidences of crime? Is it because I'm describing the Other with apparent condescension? |
Higher incidences of crime than where? This neighborhood? http://www.volunteertv.com/home/headlines/50883312.html That makes the folks in Baghdad or really anywhere look good in comparison.  |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Do you suffer from the liberal affliction of SRD, or selective reading disorder? I applauded his message but qualified it. Still can't take a little criticism of your demi-god, eh? Oh, wait, you were referring to "other" right-wingers, right? As I've often said, I'm a political moderate--a man in the middle. |
You're as delusional about this as you were about claiming to be at the anti-war protests in the 60's. I read you as a Karl Rove wannabe, accusing others of your own greatest weaknesses. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| RJjr wrote: |
| djsmnc wrote: |
| Nothing racist about it. There is certainly a victim complex that leads to the expectation that there should be handouts. |
That's been America in a nutshell ever since 9/11 regardless of skin color. I saw footage of a black lady in the Superdome in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina complaining about the flavor of her free sandwich, but these days, it seems like it's mostly whites asking for the money I earn on the farm in the blazing sun to bail out their failed business speculations in their air conditioned offices. |
Yes, and some of it comes down to perceptions. Like the whole "blacks don't tip" thing. Where white servers perceive them as not tipping so they offer less service and they expect the servers to offer poor service so they don't tip. I heard that at some diversity thing a few years back. The "40 Acres and A Mule" thing is just irritating though.
| RJjr wrote: |
| djsmnc wrote: |
| Is it racist to say that you are liable to get hurt in such and such a minority neighborhood that has higher incidences of crime? Is it because I'm describing the Other with apparent condescension? |
Higher incidences of crime than where? This neighborhood? http://www.volunteertv.com/home/headlines/50883312.html That makes the folks in Baghdad or really anywhere look good in comparison. |
It's ironic that you should point out the people of Tennessee though. The Highlander School, which was originally founded by Myles Horton for the rural poor of Tennessee who have often faced hardship and been discriminated against, became a major inspiration for the civil rights movement. Both Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks attended and received training there. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
Yes, and some of it comes down to perceptions. Like the whole "blacks don't tip" thing. Where white servers perceive them as not tipping so they offer less service and they expect the servers to offer poor service so they don't tip. I heard that at some diversity thing a few years back. The "40 Acres and A Mule" thing is just irritating though.
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Interesting you said that. At the Applesbees back home, even the black servers complained about black people not tipping.
Seriously. The black servers even coined a term "Ghetto Section". I asked team, "What's the ghetto section. You put black people in a certain section?"
They said it was any section in the restaurant with ignorant black people.
I then asked, "Ignorant blacks? That's pretty harsh."
Then they explained that ignorant blacks are "hood rats" that always ask for things and complain if something is not perfect. There aren't enough fries on the plate. The ribs don't have enough sauce. Not enough sugar in the ice tea. And after they bust their butt to serve them, they get shafted with a small tip.
These were black servers talking about black customers. |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
These were black servers talking about black customers. |
Like a white guy has NEVER EVER called another white guy "white trash". Why are you surprised?
Shocked that we don't all have some sort of weird "We are black, therefore we are one!" stamp on our foreheads?
I'm just ribbing you. 
| Quote: |
| Is it racist to say that you are liable to get hurt in such and such a minority neighborhood that has higher incidences of crime? Is it because I'm describing the Other with apparent condescension? |
No, but it's racist to say that such and such crime is due to such and such "minority" group, and not to outside factors. Like, "Oh, don't go to such and such place. You'll get shot because there are a lot of black people there."
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| Asian Americans have experience racism for 150 years but look at how much better they perform academically despite often having English as a second language. |
Excuse me, but which Asian Americans are you talking about?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority
In the UK, Black Brits are held to this "model Minority" stuff as well, and African (immigrant parents from Africa) Americans are also held to this in the United States. |
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