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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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 Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
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| Is it racist to say that you are liable to get hurt in such and such a minority neighborhood that has higher incidences of crime? Is it because I'm describing the Other with apparent condescension? |
No, but it's racist to say that such and such crime is due to such and such "minority" group, and not to outside factors. Like, "Oh, don't go to such and such place. You'll get shot because there are a lot of black people there."
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By all means. And it's also clear that a lot of the problems originated from redlining, rezoning, and just the flat out boot to minorities from better neighborhoods and prospects. My hope is just that more people find a positive route to change amid the oppression that has always been out there. Of course, as long as people (of every persuasion) put race first in their thought processes, the problems are never really going away. |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| kabrams wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Is it racist to say that you are liable to get hurt in such and such a minority neighborhood that has higher incidences of crime? Is it because I'm describing the Other with apparent condescension? |
No, but it's racist to say that such and such crime is due to such and such "minority" group, and not to outside factors. Like, "Oh, don't go to such and such place. You'll get shot because there are a lot of black people there."
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By all means. And it's also clear that a lot of the problems originated from redlining, rezoning, and just the flat out boot to minorities from better neighborhoods and prospects. My hope is just that more people find a positive route to change amid the oppression that has always been out there. Of course, as long as people (of every persuasion) put race first in their thought processes, the problems are never really going away. |
But if race is the reason why you get treated poorly, isn't it going to be on your mind a lot?
We just had a case where a camp full of black and latino kids was denied access to a public swimming pool because of the racist white patrons. How can you tell those kids to stop thinking about race when it's shoved in their faces?
I'm just being realistic, although I DO agree with you that there need to be more positive routes to change, and not just bitterness. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
I'm just being realistic, although I DO agree with you that there need to be more positive routes to change, and not just bitterness. |
There are routes to change. Its called SCHOOL.
You study. You get good grades. You go to a GOOD COLLEGE. You get a GOOD JOB. You move your butt out of the ghetto.
Oh my god Pkang! You mean you gotta work hard to be successful? You mean I can't just blow off school so that I can sell drugs and become parent at the age of 14?
Africans who immigrate to the US get good grades and go to college. They are black too. How can Black Africans do well and Black Americans still struggle? I would think that the Africans are the subject of racism just like Black Americans. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Alicia mused:
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| You know what was messed up, was when he was talking about kids losing the spark in their eyes. Ive seen it and it hurts. |
Yes, it does, and I've seen it too. But it wasn't always like this. From the 1970s to the mid-1980s many Black teenagers did achieve to expectation or showed curiosity about learning. But that was before rap and hip-hop culture eroded it. I witnessed the sad transformation in an inner-city public college preparatory magnet program in Houston over the span of a decade. So did my colleagues. It's just now starting to regain its footing.
Did you know that Black college enrollment would not be more than it was four decades ago if not for the disproportionate increase in Black female enrollment?
It will take a new leadership in the Black community to get things rolling--after the ambulance chasers like Jackson and Sharpton retire. But nothing will change substantively until the pervasive problem of family dysfunction is resolved.
Ya Ta Boy:
Must have struck a nerve there, eh? What '60s protests are you talking about in your stupor? |
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AliciaJC
Joined: 10 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
Yes, it does, and I've seen it too. But it wasn't always like this. From the 1970s to the mid-1980s many Black teenagers did achieve to expectation or showed curiosity about learning. But that was before rap and hip-hop culture eroded it. I witnessed the sad transformation in an inner-city public college preparatory magnet program in Houston over the span of a decade. So did my colleagues. It's just now starting to regain its footing.
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im pretty sure it was crack cocaine that contributed heavily to the erosion. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=8131953&page=1
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Prominent Harvard University professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. was arrested and charged with disorderly conduct after an incident with police responding to a call about someone apparently trying to break into his Cambridge, Mass., home.
Top Black Scholar Arrested in Mass., Claims Racism
Henry Louis Gates Jr., historian and director of the W. E. B. Du Bois Institute for African and has accused the Cambridge police of racism after being arrested trying to get into his own locked home near Harvard University.
Gates, who according to a friend, had been trying to force open a jammed door, was inside the house when the Cambridge police officer got there.
He allegedly responded to the officer's request for identification by shouting, "Why, because I am a black man in America?" and calling him a racist.
Though Gates eventually identified himself, he was arrested after he allegedly came out of the house and continued yelling at police, even after he was warned that he "was becoming disorderly," according to the police report. |
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According to the police report on the incident, a woman identified only as Ms. Walen, called 911 from her cell phone saying that she observed two black men with backpacks on the porch of Gates' Ware Street home.
When Cambridge Police Sgt. James Crowley arrived on the scene, she told him "her suspicions were arroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry," according to his report.
Crowley went to the house and finding a man, who turned out to be Gates, already inside, he asked him through the door for identification, the sergeant's report said.
Gates refused and called Crowley a "racist police officer,'' and when he was asked to come outside, yelled, "Why, because I am a black man in America?'' according to the report.
While Crowley was questioning him, Gates allegedly picked up a phone, dialed a number and told someone to "get the chief" and then told the officer he "had no idea who [he] was 'messing' with and [he] had not heard the last of it," the report said.
The sergeant wrote that Gates initially refused to provide identification, but then showed his Harvard University card. The sergeant again asked him to step outside and Gates allegedly responded, "Ya, I'll speak with your mama outside."
Police said the confrontation was witnessed by the woman who made the call and at least seven other people, as well as several Cambridge and Harvard University police.
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This is the kind of example that prominent black figures as well as Al Sharpton give to young blacks. It is sending the message that everything bad that happens to you is because you are black, and there is nothing you can do to change it.
If Gates had simply said, "Hello Officer, what can I do for you? Here's my driver's license (or passport)."
The officer would've checked his ID, and said, "I'm sorry for the inconvenience Mr. Gates. We had a 911 call in the area and had to come out to check it out. You have a pleasant evening sir." The guy had JUST gotten back from China. I don't think his University ID would be sufficient to get past Immigration and Customs at the airports.
When I read things like this, I can only shake my head. If I were Harvard, I would fire this guy. If he's so quick to jump the gun in calling cops racist, then what kind of things are he teaching in his classroom?
I really like Bill Cosby. He sends a clear message to the Black community. Its just too bad the black community prefers Al Sharpton's message over Bill Cosby's. |
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ReeseDog
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
There are routes to change. Its called SCHOOL.
You study. You get good grades. You go to a GOOD COLLEGE. You get a GOOD JOB. You move your butt out of the ghetto. |
You join society.
Damn straight. |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| kabrams wrote: |
I'm just being realistic, although I DO agree with you that there need to be more positive routes to change, and not just bitterness. |
There are routes to change. Its called SCHOOL.
You study. You get good grades. You go to a GOOD COLLEGE. You get a GOOD JOB. You move your butt out of the ghetto.
Oh my god Pkang! You mean you gotta work hard to be successful? You mean I can't just blow off school so that I can sell drugs and become parent at the age of 14?
Africans who immigrate to the US get good grades and go to college. They are black too. How can Black Africans do well and Black Americans still struggle? I would think that the Africans are the subject of racism just like Black Americans. |
Right, because it's just that easy to "go to school". Get out of here. Even the kids with good grades often can't go to school because of pressure from their families. It's either 1. you're abandoning us/your family or 2. you need to take care of your younger siblings.
And it's not like getting a college degree is so wonderful, right now. Everyone is in mad heat for a job, those with a degree and those without. You have teenagers competing with 40 year old MBAs for spots at McDonald's.
And you do realize that even if black (men) do go to college, they are often turned down for jobs that are then given to white men with less qualifications?
The black African immigrant population has been held against black Americans for a while now. It's always the same thing: XYZ person from Nigeria does so well in America! Why don't you, black American!
For starters, the immigrant population has to have certain qualifications to even get in the United States, many times requiring a higher educational background.
| Quote: |
| When I read things like this, I can only shake my head. If I were Harvard, I would fire this guy. If he's so quick to jump the gun in calling cops racist, then what kind of things are he teaching in his classroom? |
You probably don't even know who he is.  Anyway, there are two versions of the story. But of course, you've already made up your mind what he said.
| Quote: |
I really like Bill Cosby. He sends a clear message to the Black community. Its just too bad the black community prefers Al Sharpton's message over Bill Cosby's. |
I love how everyone gets away basically with saying "All black people think alike" by mentioning "The Black Community". LOL. What is "The Black Community"? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| About the Harvard dude. What the hell were the police supposed to do? Sir, is the male you see breaking into the house black? Oh, he is. Ok. Well it would be racist for us to come out there so, yeah. Stop being a racist sir. |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| About the Harvard dude. What the hell were the police supposed to do? Sir, is the male you see breaking into the house black? Oh, he is. Ok. Well it would be racist for us to come out there so, yeah. Stop being a racist sir. |
Because that's exactly what happened. |
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ReeseDog
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
| And you do realize that even if black (men) do go to college, they are often turned down for jobs that are then given to white men with less qualifications? |
You can drop that horseshit right now. This isn't 1963. More than once I've found myself still jobhunting after having lost a job opportunity to an equally qualified black man. Don'tcha just love affirmative action? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| kabrams wrote: |
I'm just being realistic, although I DO agree with you that there need to be more positive routes to change, and not just bitterness. |
There are routes to change. Its called SCHOOL.
You study. You get good grades. You go to a GOOD COLLEGE. You get a GOOD JOB. You move your butt out of the ghetto.
Oh my god Pkang! You mean you gotta work hard to be successful? You mean I can't just blow off school so that I can sell drugs and become parent at the age of 14?
Africans who immigrate to the US get good grades and go to college. They are black too. How can Black Africans do well and Black Americans still struggle? I would think that the Africans are the subject of racism just like Black Americans. |
Right, because it's just that easy to "go to school". Get out of here. Even the kids with good grades often can't go to school because of pressure from their families. It's either 1. you're abandoning us/your family or 2. you need to take care of your younger siblings.
And it's not like getting a college degree is so wonderful, right now. Everyone is in mad heat for a job, those with a degree and those without. You have teenagers competing with 40 year old MBAs for spots at McDonald's.
And you do realize that even if black (men) do go to college, they are often turned down for jobs that are then given to white men with less qualifications?
The black African immigrant population has been held against black Americans for a while now. It's always the same thing: XYZ person from Nigeria does so well in America! Why don't you, black American!
For starters, the immigrant population has to have certain qualifications to even get in the United States, many times requiring a higher educational background.
| Quote: |
| When I read things like this, I can only shake my head. If I were Harvard, I would fire this guy. If he's so quick to jump the gun in calling cops racist, then what kind of things are he teaching in his classroom? |
You probably don't even know who he is. Anyway, there are two versions of the story. But of course, you've already made up your mind what he said.
| Quote: |
I really like Bill Cosby. He sends a clear message to the Black community. Its just too bad the black community prefers Al Sharpton's message over Bill Cosby's. |
I love how everyone gets away basically with saying "All black people think alike" by mentioning "The Black Community". LOL. What is "The Black Community"? |
So, what you are saying is that due to circumstances outside of their control, black people shouldn't even try.
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| kabrams wrote: |
I'm just being realistic, although I DO agree with you that there need to be more positive routes to change, and not just bitterness. |
There are routes to change. Its called SCHOOL.
You study. You get good grades. You go to a GOOD COLLEGE. You get a GOOD JOB. You move your butt out of the ghetto.
Oh my god Pkang! You mean you gotta work hard to be successful? You mean I can't just blow off school so that I can sell drugs and become parent at the age of 14?
Africans who immigrate to the US get good grades and go to college. They are black too. How can Black Africans do well and Black Americans still struggle? I would think that the Africans are the subject of racism just like Black Americans. |
Right, because it's just that easy to "go to school". Get out of here. Even the kids with good grades often can't go to school because of pressure from their families. It's either 1. you're abandoning us/your family or 2. you need to take care of your younger siblings.
And it's not like getting a college degree is so wonderful, right now. Everyone is in mad heat for a job, those with a degree and those without. You have teenagers competing with 40 year old MBAs for spots at McDonald's.
And you do realize that even if black (men) do go to college, they are often turned down for jobs that are then given to white men with less qualifications?
The black African immigrant population has been held against black Americans for a while now. It's always the same thing: XYZ person from Nigeria does so well in America! Why don't you, black American!
For starters, the immigrant population has to have certain qualifications to even get in the United States, many times requiring a higher educational background.
| Quote: |
| When I read things like this, I can only shake my head. If I were Harvard, I would fire this guy. If he's so quick to jump the gun in calling cops racist, then what kind of things are he teaching in his classroom? |
You probably don't even know who he is. Anyway, there are two versions of the story. But of course, you've already made up your mind what he said.
| Quote: |
I really like Bill Cosby. He sends a clear message to the Black community. Its just too bad the black community prefers Al Sharpton's message over Bill Cosby's. |
I love how everyone gets away basically with saying "All black people think alike" by mentioning "The Black Community". LOL. What is "The Black Community"? |
I agree with this post, except for the part about black college grads getting turned down for positions where whites have more qualifications; I'd need to see some pretty convincing evidence to accept that. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:05 am Post subject: |
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kabrams pouted:
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| Because that's exactly what happened |
Oh, really? How can you be sure? Were you there? Do you have access to the full police report? And you're going to believe his running buddy Ogletree over the police?
Reality Check: If someone is trying to pry a door open and you don't recognize them, you call the cops.
As for taking umbrage to monolithic descriptions of the Black community, why don't you take exception here to the constant use of same by the likes of Sharpton? Does he speak for all Blacks? Doesn't he contribute to that overgeneralizing tendency?
[MOD EDIT] |
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