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aboxofchocolates
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Location: on your mind
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 Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:09 am Post subject: |
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beercanman
Joined: 16 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:16 am Post subject: |
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haha that site the guru linked pretty much covers it all and is fun to read
a lot to read at one sitting tho |
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aboxofchocolates
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Location: on your mind
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:34 am Post subject: |
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This doesn't work so well online, but I've come across one nifty way to stop a feminist argument in its tracks.
Believe it or not I spent years avoiding feminist arguments, but I hang around with a lot of guys with the martial arts stuff I do. Everyone is just sitting around after class having beers or something, and someone will say something remarkably sexist while making eye contact with me. Debasing remarks about the female anatomy or something.
Generally I ignore the comment, and if I do that enough I usually get to pass as "one of the guys", but sometimes someone has to press you into announcing your opinion on some gender issue.
Chicks who want all the boys to like them generally agree on whatever negative thing the guy said about women in general (the woman in front of him is an exception, of course) and then they can get their group animosity towards feminazis going.
I disagree with varying degrees of mildness (martial arts here, usually the only girl present in a room full of boys so I don't present nearly as strongly as I might if there were other women around) and then a debate ensues, with alpha monkey running the show, a few guys interjecting with comments supporting alpha monkey here and there and one guy quietly and very occasionally supporting the pro woman perspective.
I've been to several different clubs and they all fall out like this. Without exception, if a debate has become particularly heated or I say something with a little more feeling than I normally would, the best way to end the argument is for one guy to pause a second in the moment's silence following whatever heated statement I just made and then call me a "B__ch". Always followed by uproarious, over-loud laughter by all guys present, and seems to universally signify the end of the debate.
If I get mad afterwards, alpha monkey pleads for me to take a joke and keep drinking. A few moments after the laughter, the alpha monkey might sum up with some closing comments as to why he is right, but if I respond to those comments, there are groans among the group and pleas for the debate to stop.
Oh, and often, if the drinking continues, alpha monkey hits on me.
Had to spell check that, sorry. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| The Avoid All Generalization line. One person says X is Y and someone says that's wrong because you can't say *all* Xes are Ys. Ok, we should be careful to qualify our statements and not exaggerate, but can't we at least make some generalizations with the understanding that they are merely generalizations to which exceptions exist, and can't we get on with more interesting parts of the discussion? It's got to the point where calling someone up for failure to use a qualification like 'some', 'many', or 'most' is the same as calling them on a spelling mistake. Sorry, I mean *sometimes* the same or *in many cases*. It's tedious. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
| The Avoid All Generalization line. One person says X is Y and someone says that's wrong because you can't say *all* Xes are Ys. Ok, we should be careful to qualify our statements and not exaggerate, but can't we at least make some generalizations with the understanding that they are merely generalizations to which exceptions exist, and can't we get on with more interesting parts of the discussion? |
True, but what I find more annoying is the "generalize to all Koreans" racists that seem to frequent this board. Just because one or even a handful of Koreans do it, doesn't mean that all Koreans are racist, wife-beating, prostitute using, drunken "peasants."
For example, Wylies99 likes to find news articles reflecting poorly on Korea/Koreans and then proclaim that all Koreans are to blame. Well here are the current headlines from the U.S.:
Does that mean Americans are evil, child-beating monsters:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jk4iw3Nwrgz1rNpn1Nn3xm-nYuFAD99IEURO0
"Bowers allegedly pushed one boy toward his bed, and repeatedly shocked him with a stun gun. Bowers then held down a second boy, stunned him several times and threatened to sodomize him, ultimately causing the child to soil himself, the lawsuit claimed.
A third child complied with the deputies' demands that he sit on a couch, but Lawler handcuffed him before Bowers zapped him repeatedly, the lawsuit said.
The fourth child, a girl, pleaded with the deputies to stop but Lawler handcuffed her. Bowers lifted her off the ground, pressed her against a wall and choked her, the lawsuit alleges.
"Do you want to live or die (expletive)?" the lawsuit, filed July 1, claims Bowers asked the girl before she was thrown into a closet, vomiting."
Does this mean that Americans are racist and the judicial system is corrupt:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090721/ap_on_re_us/us_dragging_death;_ylt=Anfbw52_UdxsQRu9vG8LIcpd8ccF
"Police and residents of an eastern Texas town are bracing for dueling protests between black and white extremists over a prosecutor's decision to drop murder charges against two white men accused in the death of a black friend who was run over by a vehicle and dragged beneath it.
(The judge in the case) who is white, sentenced a black girl to up to seven years in a juvenile prison in 2007 for shoving a teacher's aide at school. He sentenced a white girl to probation for burning down her parents' house." |
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xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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The poster who continuously asks for sources.
Statement: "Most people in the world accept the fact that the world is round instead of flat as previously believed."
Reply: Could you priovide some sources for that? Otherwise your arguments have no merit.......
Here are my sources toolhole: [email protected] |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| cangel wrote: |
| What about those people who have so little going on in their lives that they can literally spend hours researching, quoting, and typing up their arguments online... I mean, geez, how pathetic! |
I have to ask. Were you referring to Real Reality with this? Guys spends the better part of the last decade collecting negative stories about Korea. Then he revives ancient threads by copying and pasting outdated and often broken links that no one reads in some vain attempt to cast aspersions on Korea/Koreans. I suspect he is a really lonely, bitter guy, which makes me feel some sadness for him. |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| xingyiman wrote: |
The poster who continuously asks for sources.
Statement: "Most people in the world accept the fact that the world is round instead of flat as previously believed."
Reply: Could you priovide some sources for that? Otherwise your arguments have no merit.......
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Actually, your example is more like a form of inductive reasoning, which I've noticed a lot of people have a tough time coming to grips with. This, in itself, is probably the number one reason people argue about degrees of certainty so aggressively.
As for generalizations. One thing most people can't accept is the inevitability of a generalization, whether or not it's about Koreans. This is a Korean Discussion forum so the odds are that it will be about Korean culture or Koreans. However, what often happens here, because the majority of posters aren't trained philosophers or logicians, is that a poster will posit a generalization, and rather than being rebutted in an impartial manner, the retort exaggerates the gambit--and a flame war begins.
Most people claim they've been trained to think critically, but the reality is probably closer to a minority. This is why a generalization becomes inevitable: many posters write while their emotions are at a peak AND they aren't really thinking it through as they write. They are venting. So a generalization is claimed. In essence, an over the top generalization should be tempered with a cool reply rather than outrage. It is through a measured rebuttal (the response) that a useful argument develops not the initial post.
That said, a lot of people really like flame wars and controversy!  |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
| cangel wrote: |
| What about those people who have so little going on in their lives that they can literally spend hours researching, quoting, and typing up their arguments online... I mean, geez, how pathetic! |
I have to ask. Were you referring to Real Reality with this? Guys spends the better part of the last decade collecting negative stories about Korea. Then he revives ancient threads by copying and pasting outdated and often broken links that no one reads in some vain attempt to cast aspersions on Korea/Koreans. I suspect he is a really lonely, bitter guy, which makes me feel some sadness for him. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| beercanman wrote: |
I think attacking the poster and not the message is a bad one, and bringing up stuff a poster said in the past. Anything to "win" like we're still on a playground.
Character attacks, basically. No matter if you think the poster is a jerk, just look at the message and forget the person. |
I agree 100% on this.
A: Hondas are good
B: Hondas are bad
A: Hondas are good
B: why?
A: because they are crafted with Japanese perfection
B: Jap lover! Honda suck because they are made from Japs and you are a Jap lover so your opinion dont count! |
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Bronski
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:23 am Post subject: |
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Fake/Unnecessary Outrage
Some posters cannot have an argument without a slew of exclamations points and CAPITAL LETTERS! Must everything be taken personally? I'm not entirely against showing emotion every once in a while, even on an Internet forum, but some posters are constantly at full throttle.
On the other hand...
False Accusations of Being a Crybaby/Whiner
Some posters will accuse someone of being a baby if they dare to disagree. This is similar to "Whatever, I don't care." It's being defensive by calling someone else defensive. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| And of course, we can not forget the Nazi comparisons. This is most commonly used by posters who apparently only have a vague idea that Nazi=evil and therefore apply it in an attempt to smear the subject and by extension the other poster. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| And of course, we can not forget the Nazi comparisons. This is most commonly used by posters who apparently only have a vague idea that Nazi=evil and therefore apply it in an attempt to smear the subject and by extension the other poster. |
Add Communist to that as well. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| xingyiman wrote: |
The poster who continuously asks for sources.
Statement: "Most people in the world accept the fact that the world is round instead of flat as previously believed."
Reply: Could you priovide some sources for that? Otherwise your arguments have no merit....... |
Asking for sources is totally legitimate. If the debate is so casual that you don't feel providing sources to back up questionable claims is worth your time, you should have no problem simply conceding whatever's being discussed and dropping out of the discussion. If someone asked me to prove most people believed the world was round, to use your example, I'd just say no. Not particularly annoying.
If anything, the real epidemic is people who seem to think they can just assert anything and it should be treated as fact upon which they can then build an argument. That behavior is quite annoying. |
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Triban
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Location: Suwon Station
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Annoying Online Debate Tactics |
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| Bronski wrote: |
| Anyways, this thread is for discussing annoying strategies people use while arguing on the Internet. I find these strategies annoying, not so much because they're fallacious, but more so because they're clich�. |
Nou. |
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