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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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 Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Where is the real data? |
Look up - apparently a few dozen protesters is enough data for you. All of a sudden though a survey of 27,000 isn't enough to draw any conclusions. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| catman wrote: |
Who said that there would be NO hostility towards the US after Bush left?
Strawman argument. |
How about that the US wasn't popular before he was president? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Where is the real data? |
Look up - apparently a few dozen protesters is enough data for you. All of a sudden though a survey of 27,000 isn't enough to draw any conclusions. |
The US wasn't well liked BEFORE Bush was president, that is my point How does one explain that? That can't be the fault of Bush.
US favorability ratings are how high?
As I said this is still the honeymoon phase and Obama hasn't needed to do anything controversial to protect US interests.
Just as important you don't see the supreme leader in Iran or in North Korea , changing his policies. Which kind of shows that it wasn't the policies of Bush that made them act that way.  |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Where is the real data? |
Look up - apparently a few dozen protesters is enough data for you. All of a sudden though a survey of 27,000 isn't enough to draw any conclusions. |
The US wasn't well liked BEFORE Bush was president, that is my point How does one explain that? That can't be the fault of Bush. |
| Quote: |
| Positive opinions about the United States have returned to higher levels not seen since before President George W. Bush took office in 2001. |
You seem to be mistaking "more popular than before" with "not hated by anybody anywhere". |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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If it wasn't the US, it would be another Western country.
Wait... The UK. There is no US embassy in Tehran, since the 1980 hostage crisis. Thus:
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/06/19/rushdie20607_wideweb__470x310,0.jpg
I believe they don't like Israel, as well.
http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/081103-Iran-protest-hmed-12p.hmedium.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40958000/jpg/_40958424_flag203bap.jpg
Seems like a lot of politically motivated theatrics by paid stooges, in an attempt to shift focus from domestic disatisfaction with the totalitarian regime in Iran.
I was surprised to see Cuba in blue on this map:
http://www.immigration-usa.com/flags/burning/usa_flag_burning_map.gif
| Quote: |
| The above map marks in blue where there have been no recorded burnings of the American flag. Clearly, there are limited opportunities left for virgin flag burnings, though most Africans seem to have better things to do. In Mongolia, reportedly, you are better off American than Chinese. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Where is the real data? |
Look up - apparently a few dozen protesters is enough data for you. All of a sudden though a survey of 27,000 isn't enough to draw any conclusions. |
The US wasn't well liked BEFORE Bush was president, that is my point How does one explain that? That can't be the fault of Bush. |
| Quote: |
| Positive opinions about the United States have returned to higher levels not seen since before President George W. Bush took office in 2001. |
You seem to be mistaking "more popular than before" with "not hated by anybody anywhere". |
I don't think I am making that mistake.
The US wasn't well liked before Bush was president. More importantly the US wasn't getting the support of the "international community" on anything important before Bush was president. That is my point.
If Obama finds himself forced to do something unpopular worldwide to protect US interests and the US is still well liked then you will really have made your case. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| catman wrote: |
Who said that there would be NO hostility towards the US after Bush left?
Strawman argument. |
How about that the US wasn't popular before he was president? |
So? It is the level of hostility. ESPECIALLY in the West. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| catman wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| catman wrote: |
Who said that there would be NO hostility towards the US after Bush left?
Strawman argument. |
How about that the US wasn't popular before he was president? |
So? It is the level of hostility. ESPECIALLY in the West. |
Ok so by electing Obama president the US regained the support of fair weather friends - for now. |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know what we're yelling about! But I thought this article might matter. Not sure why. LOUD NOISES!
Obama popularity lower than Bush's at six-month mark: poll
WASHINGTON (AFP) � President Barack Obama's tumbling poll numbers have dipped below those of his predecessor George W. Bush at the same point in his White House tenure, according to a national poll released Tuesday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090721/ts_alt_afp/uspoliticsobama |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| catman wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| catman wrote: |
Who said that there would be NO hostility towards the US after Bush left?
Strawman argument. |
How about that the US wasn't popular before he was president? |
So? It is the level of hostility. ESPECIALLY in the West. |
Ok so by electing Obama president the US regained the support of fair weather friends - for now. |
Who are the US's true friends? Poland? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Obama popularity lower than Bush's at six-month mark: poll
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Well, among Americans themselves, Bush wasn't all that unpopular his first year in office, and of course his support was only solidified by 9-11. When we think of the unpopular Bush, it's really his second term, after it became evident what a fumblebuck Iraq was(not to mention the recession kicking in) that we're talking about. So no, it's not really surprising that, among Americans, Obama's numbers six months into office would be about par with Bush's at the same time.
I agree with Mith. Yes, Joo is correct that general anti-Americanism preceded the election of Bush by a few decades at least, but you'd have to be pretty tone-deaf to global sentiment to think that things didn't get exponentially worse under his administration. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
Obama popularity lower than Bush's at six-month mark: poll
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Well, among Americans themselves, Bush wasn't all that unpopular his first year in office, and of course his support was only solidified by 9-11. When we think of the unpopular Bush, it's really his second term, after it became evident what a fumblebuck Iraq was(not to mention the recession kicking in) that we're talking about. So no, it's not really surprising that, among Americans, Obama's numbers six months into office would be about par with Bush's at the same time.
I agree with Mith. Yes, Joo is correct that general anti-Americanism preceded the election of Bush by a few decades at least, but you'd have to be pretty tone-deaf to global sentiment to think that things didn't get exponentially worse under his administration. |
Ok that is kind of true and there is always been some anti Americanism from WWII onwards But I would say that there was a new and different kind of anti americanism from 1991 when the Soviet Union failed onward.
Obama is better liked than Bush and he is a good advertisement for "America the tolerant" but he does little to change post cold war resentment of the US. Bush didn't cause post cold war resentment of the US and Obama can't fix it. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| catman wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| catman wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| catman wrote: |
Who said that there would be NO hostility towards the US after Bush left?
Strawman argument. |
How about that the US wasn't popular before he was president? |
So? It is the level of hostility. ESPECIALLY in the West. |
Ok so by electing Obama president the US regained the support of fair weather friends - for now. |
Who are the US's true friends? Poland? |
Not by country. There are pro US people her and there around the world but there is less of them then their opposite. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
I agree with Mith. Yes, Joo is correct that general anti-Americanism preceded the election of Bush by a few decades at least, but you'd have to be pretty tone-deaf to global sentiment to think that things didn't get exponentially worse under his administration. |
Obama is in a honeymoon period. Its too early to really gauge his popularity. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| Obama is better liked than Bush and he is a good advertisement for "America the tolerant" but he does little to change post cold war resentment of the US. Bush didn't cause post cold war resentment of the US and Obama can't fix it. |
As far as I know, you are the one (on this board) who says Bush caused the anti-Americanism. Everyone else says Bush exacerbated it. After all, one of Bush's campaign '00 pledges was to reduce anti-Americanism. No need to reduce something that didn't exist until he came in, is there?
Obama has made clear and impressive steps to improve and restore American prestige in the world. This is in addition to the fact that Elmer Fudd could make significant strides in that direction after the debacle of the Bush administration.
Anyone who has done any reading on Iran knows that it has been the most pro-American Moslem state in the region for quite some time. It's rather a shocking fact, I know, but it has been mentioned multiple times over the last decade or so in quite a number of reports. Inconvenient, I know. People who only look at the bomb-Iran media possibly missed it, but otherwise it is well known. (A year or so ago there was some fool who was stupid enough to say on a thread here that there was no Iranian opposition to their government.)
Obama is probably doing better in foreign policy than he is domestic policy-wise. (Note: People have a marked tendency to tout polls that support them and damn polls that show they are not popular. It's exactly the same at the personal level. If you have a good reputation, then the respect of other people matters. If you have a bad reputation, then who the hell cares what other people think?) [I'm waiting for the doctoral dissertation to be published that demonstrates that Cheyney was the real president at least during the first term.]
It matters a great deal what other people think of the US in terms of cooperation on issues of joint concern.
| Quote: |
| Obama is in a honeymoon period. Its too early to really gauge his popularity. |
I'm disappointed in this response. Normally (on issues other than economics and states rights) Kuros is balanced and fair. I hope you haven't fallen victim to the Obama Derangement Syndrome. |
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