|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
|
 Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:52 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Molly quoted Gates as saying to Soledad O'Brien:
| Quote: |
| There was a black officer there who was very sensitive |
According to the police report, it was Crowley who asked the Black officer to redo the cuffs. Now, either one of them is lying or Gates was in such a fit of rage he didn't even hear the request made by Crowley. Notice, though, how Gates makes a point of distancing one police officer from another.
also from the interview with O'Brien:
| Quote: |
| If I had stepped outside of my house, he couldn't come in my house legally without a warrant. He couldn't arrest me without a warrant. Had I stepped outside he would have slapped handcuffs on me for being under suspicion of breaking and entering because he was responding to a profile. |
This is rubbish; either Gates is delusional or being disingenuous. Either way, it doesn't speak well of him but of course Soledad is also milking it for all its worth, the good cheerleader that she is.
Gates concluded:
| Quote: |
O'BRIEN: The charges were dropped.
GATES: Charges were dropped and the mayor of Cambridge, God bless her, called me and apologized to me. And my lawyers and I are considering what further action. Because this is�
O'BRIEN: What does that mean? Does that mean lawsuit?
GATES: Perhaps. Because this is not about me. This is about the vulnerability of black men in America. |
What a self-serving, sanctimonious SOB he is. The mayor of Cambridge is a personal friend of his and Black. You can view a video clip of her from The Boston Globe. Let him take further action and I hope that Crowley countersues for defamation of character.
So what did the friend say about Gates? C'mon, gal, don't leave us hanging!!
ubermenzch:
Slate is a liberal online publication which sometimes has an agenda. Maybe here too or maybe not but, regardless, the Cambridge Police Officer Union (which includes minorities) stated today that Crowley followed the rules to the letter. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I wonder if Gates felt even more "entitled" to his behavior given his personal friendship with Hussein. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
If you really want to voice your support for Sergeant James Crowley, call the Cambridge Police Dept. The non-emergency # is 1-617-349-3300.
http://www.cambridgema.gov/CPD/
You can call them from Skype (or whatever telephony program you use) and let them know you are calling from Korea and want voice your support for Sgt. Crowley. I just figured if people feel really strongly about this, letting Crowley know he has supporters across the world might be nice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Hater Depot wrote: |
| yawarakaijin wrote: |
| We are living in one fucked up world where those who put their life on the line daily (especially american police officers) are expected to have to sit there and take crap from anybody, Cambridge professor or run of the mill crackhead. |
Better take it up with the Supreme Court. Constitutionally, police officers are held to a higher standard than ordinary citizens when it comes to withstanding rude speech. |
You got a case citation for that? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
One of the police reports was written by a Latino police officer, Carlos Figueroa, who arrived shortly after Crowley. In the report he says Gates responded, "No, I will not!" when asked to show ID by Crowley. He told Crowley, "You don't know who you're messing with!" and continually accused Crowley of being a racist. His shouting attracted several onlookers.
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Gates_Arrest.pdf
Crowley tells his side of the story and about his reaction to Obama's comment concerning the police acting "stupidly" in this interview-
http://audio.weei.com/m/25432556/sgt-james-crowley-cambridge-police.htm#q=crowley
I really think the wrong guy is being accused of racism. If so then the credibility of Gates and those who support him will be damaged. Cry wolf too many times and no one will believe you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ubermenzch
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Location: bundang, south korea
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
ubermenzch discerned from SteelRails:
| Quote: |
| This seems exactly right to me. |
I concur. Usually in these situations neither party is guiltless. But I'll wager that it was Gates who got belligerent first and, unlike Gates, Crowley hasn't tried to belabor the issue, preferring to let it rest. And that is what I find so galling, not his trying to cover his own ass.
|
But am I being unreasonable in suggesting that Crowley WAS belaboring the issue by making the arrest? As I've suggested before, might it not have been the wiser course for Crowley to have been lenient once he found out that it was indeed Gates' residence? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ubermenzch wrote: |
But am I being unreasonable in suggesting that Crowley WAS belaboring the issue by making the arrest? As I've suggested before, might it not have been the wiser course for Crowley to have been lenient once he found out that it was indeed Gates' residence? |
Unreasonable, no. But how many times are distinguished people, celebrities, politicians, etc. going to get away with being rude, disrespectful, or not following the law? I agree if Crowley didn't arrest him, probably not much would have become of it. If anything, minor gossip would have spread because it seems people on the street were watching the commotion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Does this episode say something about the larger black population? There does seem to be a portion of the black population in America which is overly hasty is crying "racism!" at the slightest provocation, but we shouldn't generalize, especially with this sensitive subject. And it seems presumptuous to assume this case to be an example of such black over-sensitivity. |
I agree with this. I also believe the title of the thread points to a rather extensive over-sensitivity of some white people to any incident between white and black. While it is certainly true that things are better than a century ago, we haven't reached a post-racial society, and with the first black man in the White House, a fair number of our fellow citizens are emotionally unprepared to handle the situation. Just check out the birther thing going on.
This kind of reaction is going to come up every time an episode happens as long as Obama is president. Too many people see it as an opportunity to make political hay. Call it the White Al Sharpton Response.
On top of that, there is the Obama Derangement Syndrome to which I attribute some portion of the emotion found with this incident. For example, I don't remember seeing anything even neutral, much less positive, about Obama from the OP. Be that as it may.
I'm fairly certain, but I'm not spending my time searching for examples, that some of the posters on this thread are also to be found foaming and frothing at any and all reports of perceived slights from Koreans. I cannot imagine how outraged certain portions of the expat community would be had some similar incident happened here in Korea. Can you imagine? "I was in my own home and the Kops came and arrested me for breaking into my own home. I showed 'em my ARC but that wasn't enough. Yer dern tootin' I yelled and screamed at 'em." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
E_athlete
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Location: Korea sparkling
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Obama is right. Arresting Gates when he showed his ID was a colossal dumb move. His ID shows that Gates lives in his house. Instead they arrested him and took him to the police station. That's why they dropped the charges. I think Gates will sue and rightly so. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
richardlang
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
The Cambridge Police Department requested that the charges be dropped and the Middlesex County District Attorney's Office agreed to enter a nolle prosequi in this matter.
"It was not Professor Gates' best moment and it certainly was not the Cambridge Police Department's best moment," Downes said.
The Cambridge Police Department acknowledged that the incident was "regrettable and unfortunate." |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
howie2424
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| "It was not Professor Gates' best moment and it certainly was not the Cambridge Police Department's best moment," Downes said. |
I agree with Downes completely. I think both parties exercised some pretty poor judgment here. Upon being told that Crowley was there investigating a reported break-in, Gates should have put the whole thing in perspective and said to himself �Geez, five minutes ago there were two guys on my porch forcing the door open. I can see how that might arouse suspicion.� At that point he should have calmly cooperated, provided his ID and the whole thing would have been over in a few minutes. Instead it appears he started ranting and raving, claiming racism when the fact is, the officer was just there investigating a potential burglary in progress. A burglary reported by one of Gates� own neighbors who was, at that very moment, standing outside on the street. This was not one of Gates� better decisions.
The officer on the other hand, having satisfied himself that there was no crime being committed, should have ignored Gates� tirade and simply left. Why in the world would you want to arrest an elderly, handicapped, Harvard professor for being "disorderly"? Surely anyone would have the foresight to see that that wasn�t going to end well. And how exactly can one engage in disorderly conduct by yelling and screaming within the confines of their own residence? The reality is, Crowley just didn�t like the fact that Gates was yelling and screaming at him and flexed his police officer muscle by arresting him on a bogus charge that he knew would never see the light of a courtroom. That was not one of Crowley�s better decisions.
Either way this arrest had absolutely nothing to do with the color of Gates� skin. It was just a clash of egos. I�m quite certain this kind of situation occurs on a weekly basis in some American city. As someone else has already pointed out, Crowley seems to have moved on. Gates ought to do the same.
Last edited by howie2424 on Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
richardlang
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Maninthemiddle, monomania about black people |
|
|
| Hater Depot wrote: |
| proustme wrote: |
| ManintheMiddle, what's with your monomania about black people? You're quite keen on posting about them. |
Notice that for all his professed concern for them, he has never started a thread about where he decried a black man being the victim of racial injustice, rather than a white man. Selective outrage rings hollow. |
I would not say his absence of posts about black people being victims of racism says much. However, the bulk of ManintheMiddle's posts are about black people. This particular race of people is of great personal interest to him. This is what can be said heuristically without going into conjecture.
ManintheMiddle has 557 posts on Dave's. 322 of them are about black people (i.e. uses the word 'blacks'). That is 58%.
A Google search centered specifically on this message forum with "ManintheMiddle" and "blacks" shows 322 search results.
LINK: http://www.google.co.kr/search?hl=ko&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=FEC&newwindow=1&q=site%3Aforums.eslcafe.com%2Fkorea+maninthemiddle+blacks&btnG=%EA%B2%80%EC%83%89&lr=&aq=f&oq= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I would not say his absence of posts about black people being victims of racism says much. |
Really? Whenever a case of a white person with a racial grievance makes headlines he and his fellow conservatives are all over it. But they never wax indignant over the much more common episodes of black people being discriminated against. I think that to be a glaring omission from people who claim to abhor racism. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
bacasper conjectured:
| Quote: |
| I wonder if Gates felt even more "entitled" to his behavior given his personal friendship with Hussein. |
Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if the thought has crossed his mind. Gates was filled with vim and vigor and strutting like a rooster ruling his roost, to be sure. His sense of entitlement comes from several sources, however: 1) as a well-educated man (elitism toward blue collar workers); 2) as a well-heeled professor at Harvard (he's used to being feted there); 3) as a friend of Hussein's and others in high places, and 4) as an African American, making him a privileged minority.
MollyBloom suggested:
| Quote: |
| You can call them from Skype |
A great idea, and a constructive one at that. Thanks, and thanks for being one of only two women to contribute to this thread (the other being Big Bird).
Kepler noted:
| Quote: |
| One of the police reports was written by a Latino police officer, Carlos Figueroa, |
That's correct, but the mainstream media keeps referring to him as a "another white officer" just as they ignored the Puerto Rican firefighter in the Ricci case. They want to keep other minorities out of the picture to simplify things for themselves.
ubermenztch asked:
| Quote: |
| But am I being unreasonable in suggesting that Crowley WAS belaboring the issue by making the arrest? |
No, you're not and one can reasonably argue that he pushed the matter to the limit, although his colleagues insist that he followed department policy to the letter. Fine, then if Hussein and Gates don't like the policy, get it changed instead of blaming the cop. Same scenario in this respect as the firefighter case in New Haven was.
MollyBloom reminded:
| Quote: |
| But how many times are distinguished people, celebrities, politicians, etc. going to get away with being rude, disrespectful, or not following the law? |
That is certainly true. And Gates is something of a local celebrity in his own right. The woman who placed the 911 call has actually been criticized by the Black mayor of Cambridge and some Blacks posting to Gates' blog "The Root" for NOT recognizing him. Oh, dear, how dare she! Celebrity status has also become a form of entitlement in America, though it obviously crosses racial lines.
Ya-Ta Boy reiterated:
| Quote: |
| I also believe the title of the thread points to a rather extensive over-sensitivity of some white people to any incident between white and black |
Gee, dunno. Is it anything like the obsession that some posters have with this OP, so much so that they post the same comments on two threads?
howie concluded:
| Quote: |
| The officer on the other hand, having satisfied himself that there was no crime being committed, should have ignored Gates� tirade and simply left. |
There was nothing simple about this incident after Gates blew up in his face like a bad M-80. The officer exited the home to be able to hear what the Harvard PD dispatcher was saying and Gates followed him out and continued his childish tirade before a gathering group of onlookers. He repeatedly threatened Sgt. Crowley with "you haven't heard the last of me."
richardlang tallied:
| Quote: |
| ManintheMiddle has 557 posts on Dave's. |
I guess I should be flattered by all the attention you're giving me but, really, you have way too much time on your hands. You sound like a Hong Kong accountant.
Most of my posts deal with liberalism in all its demented dimensions, not Blacks. But I'd be the first to admit that I have a particular bone to pick with what is transpiring in race relations these days. And I do firmly believe that the sense of entitlement among many (but not all) Blacks is endangering our society. Having taught and worked in a Black community for a decade, I have some claim to know and care about it. Beyond that, I owe you no explanation any more than Sgt. Crowley owes Prof. Gates an apology. I'm so glad, by the way, that he's refusing to cave in to the liberal media full court press. Unlike Hussein, he has no cause to flip-flop to salvage public perceptions of him which have done a 180 since his stupid remarks to the press. And notice how today many minority cops stood with their majority brethren to protest Hussein's remarks? That spoke volumes.
Would love to have been a 3rd party in that hotline call from Obama to Gates. Can just imagine, though, what was said between these bros.
Hater Depot determined:
| Quote: |
| But they never wax indignant over the much more common episodes of black people being discriminated against |
Uh, so if I don't launch a thread on every racial incident I'm a racist? Gimme a break, bruddah. As for that, the FBI files show nearly as many hate crimes in recent years by minorities against Whites. Have you reported on those findings? Last month, for instance, a White family on the beaches of Hawaii was attacked by locals (all minorities), insulted, beaten, and yet the state attorney general refused to acknowledge it as a hate crime. Are some Blacks still the victims of racist assault by some police? Yes, sadly, they are.
Besides, Hussein brought this into the national spotlight (and Gates by his refusal to accept the dropping of charges did the same before him), so I and others like me posting online are hardly the instigators. Looks like Eric Holder is getting that national dialogue on race that he wanted. Too bad Hussein and Gates picked the wrong target.
Hey, maybe you and richard lang and YT Boy can all go have a "delicious" Hite beer in a Seoul bar and piss and moan about me? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
UPDATE:
Here's an article about the Black officer on the scene speaking out. I could say I told you so....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_harvard_scholar_arresting_officer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
