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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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 Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| dutchschultz wrote: |
CAN SOMEONE TELL ME THE NUMBER TO REPORT THOSE FOREIGNERS WHO JAYWALK NEAR MY APARTMENT?
THEY ARE DRIVING THE PRICE OF INSURANCE UP WHEN THEY GET HIT BY THOSE PESKY KOREAN DRIVERS.
YOU KNOW THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW AND SO IT IS MY DUTY TO REPORT THEM. |
112. Why do they allow stupid people to come here? God I miss the nineties before this place became packed with the helpless. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
| Straphanger wrote: |
| So you're saying that you'd be willing to have someone who is unwilling or unable to comply with the laws in your home country to teach your young children alone? |
Isn't that what the people who hired these illegals for private lessons are doing? I personally wouldn't, but then again, I'm not a Korean mother. And I don't think giving English lessons to people who want them is such a terrible crime. If that's all that they've done, then they should be allowed to get sick of this place and leave just like everyone else.
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The problem, Milk, is that in many cases the Korean mothers don't even know that the teachers are illegals and don't have degrees. In the cases I've known the hagwon owner has pretended the teachers are legal and do have degrees. Therefore the Korean mothers are being defrauded. I'm sure most of them would prefer legal teachers with degrees and CBCs. Do you agree with defrauding people? |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
| dutchschultz wrote: |
CAN SOMEONE TELL ME THE NUMBER TO REPORT THOSE FOREIGNERS WHO JAYWALK NEAR MY APARTMENT?
THEY ARE DRIVING THE PRICE OF INSURANCE UP WHEN THEY GET HIT BY THOSE PESKY KOREAN DRIVERS.
YOU KNOW THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW AND SO IT IS MY DUTY TO REPORT THEM. |
112. Why do they allow stupid people to come here? God I miss the nineties before this place became packed with the helpless. |
I suspect those on this site who get so upset about this issue are the ones who are themselves illegal. It must suck to be constantly paranoid of getting caught. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| asylum seeker wrote: |
| The problem, Milk, is that in many cases the Korean mothers don't even know that the teachers are illegals and don't have degrees. In the cases I've known the hagwon owner has pretended the teachers are legal and do have degrees. Therefore the Korean mothers are being defrauded. I'm sure most of them would prefer legal teachers with degrees and CBCs. Do you agree with defrauding people? |
Most Korean mothers I've met have been more than willing to arrange private English lessons for their children even though most of them KNOW that it's illegal. I've had to turn down offers from people in supermarkets, at social events, at school, and people calling me because someone at school gave them my number. They know it's illegal, and they don't care. So why would they care about someone without a degree? After all, a monkey could do this job. Do they really need someone with a degree? Especially a degree from a non-Korean University, which is worth about as much to them as the word 'Congrats' written on single sheet of toilet paper. But even if it isn't, there's always the question: THIS is the best job you could get? Why aren't you working long hours under fluorescent lights? Why can't you get a good job in your own country? Etc., etc., etc... (keep in mind that these are the questions Korean mothers usually ask right before they talk about how their marriage is suffocating them and hint that they want to @#$% you).
Honestly, given the reputation of/hate for LEGAL ESL teachers in this country, do you really think they are under the impression it makes a world of difference? |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
| asylum seeker wrote: |
| The problem, Milk, is that in many cases the Korean mothers don't even know that the teachers are illegals and don't have degrees. In the cases I've known the hagwon owner has pretended the teachers are legal and do have degrees. Therefore the Korean mothers are being defrauded. I'm sure most of them would prefer legal teachers with degrees and CBCs. Do you agree with defrauding people? |
Most Korean mothers I've met have been more than willing to arrange private English lessons for their children even though most of them KNOW that it's illegal. I've had to turn down offers from people in supermarkets, at social events, at school, and people calling me because someone at school gave them my number. They know it's illegal, and they don't care. So why would they care about someone without a degree? After all, a monkey could do this job. Do they really need someone with a degree? Especially a degree from a non-Korean University, which is worth about as much to them as the word 'Congrats' written on single sheet of toilet paper. But even if it isn't, there's always the question: THIS is the best job you could get? Why aren't you working long hours under fluorescent lights? Why can't you get a good job in your own country? Etc., etc., etc... (keep in mind that these are the questions Korean mothers usually ask right before they talk about how their marriage is suffocating them and hint that they want to @#$% you).
Honestly, given the reputation of/hate for LEGAL ESL teachers in this country, do you really think they are under the impression it makes a world of difference? |
Yes, I think most of them would prefer a legal teacher with a CBC and a degree. You personally, don't seem to believe that it is important but it's total garbage to try and say that all Koreans think that way.
Anyway, you're dodging the question. The point is, if the illegal foreign teacher and hagwon boss are colluding in pretending that the teacher is legal with a CBC and a degree they are denying the parent the right to make their choice as a consumer; they are committing fraud. Do you think it's OK for them to commit fraud? |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| asylum seeker wrote: |
| Yes, I think most of them would prefer a legal teacher with a CBC and a degree. You personally, don't seem to believe that it is important but it's total garbage to try and say that all Koreans think that way. |
No, unless someone decides to start polling extensively, I can't presume to know what every Korean thinks, but neither can you. So if I have to drop it, so do you-- and your opinion is just as garbage as mine.
| asylum seeker wrote: |
| Anyway, you're dodging the question. The point is, if the illegal foreign teacher and hagwon boss are colluding in pretending that the teacher is legal with a CBC and a degree they are denying the parent the right to make their choice as a consumer; they are committing fraud. Do you think it's OK for them to commit fraud? |
I suppose if they're lying about it, then it's not the illegal teaching that's wrong, it's the false advertising-- they're not the same thing. You can say they go hand in hand, but that's not always the case. And do you really think the teacher deserves to be punished for that?
On the other hand, I have my doubts that many people even think to ask. We all know what we need to go through to get here, but how many mothers do? How many kids do? They all see the dodgy stories about drunken predatory ESL teachers on TV... but they still send their kids to hagwons. Go figure.
I still don't think that anyone cares... except of course, the die-hard racists (for completely different reasons, that are too ugly to state publicly or even admit to themselves) and apparently some ESL teachers (who still think they're living in a country where this kind of thing matters). |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
| asylum seeker wrote: |
| Yes, I think most of them would prefer a legal teacher with a CBC and a degree. You personally, don't seem to believe that it is important but it's total garbage to try and say that all Koreans think that way. |
No, unless someone decides to start polling extensively, I can't presume to know what every Korean thinks, but neither can you. So if I have to drop it, so do you-- and your opinion is just as garbage as mine.
| asylum seeker wrote: |
| Anyway, you're dodging the question. The point is, if the illegal foreign teacher and hagwon boss are colluding in pretending that the teacher is legal with a CBC and a degree they are denying the parent the right to make their choice as a consumer; they are committing fraud. Do you think it's OK for them to commit fraud? |
I suppose if they're lying about it, then it's not the illegal teaching that's wrong, it's the false advertising-- they're not the same thing. You can say they go hand in hand, but that's not always the case. And do you really think the teacher deserves to be punished for that?
On the other hand, I have my doubts that many people even think to ask. We all know what we need to go through to get here, but how many mothers do? How many kids do? They all see the dodgy stories about drunken predatory ESL teachers on TV... but they still send their kids to hagwons. Go figure.
I still don't think that anyone cares... except of course, the die-hard racists (for completely different reasons, that are too ugly to state publicly or even admit to themselves) and apparently some ESL teachers (who still think they're living in a country where this kind of thing matters). |
Your view of Korean people is so prejudiced that any further argument is probably pointless.
I will say though that your view that they have little regard for university education runs completely opposite to my experience here. My last hagwon boss listed our degrees in a banner sign outside of our school. If Koreans don't care at all about degrees as you claim why would he have bothered to do something like that?
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| I suppose if they're lying about it, then it's not the illegal teaching that's wrong, it's the false advertising-- they're not the same thing. You can say they go hand in hand, but that's not always the case. And do you really think the teacher deserves to be punished for that? |
Do I think there should be a punishment for committing fraud? Yes, I certainly do. You must have a very warped sense of morality if you think that fraud should go unpunished in societies. Why don't we all just get fake degrees then? What's the point in even having universities? |
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IdontdrinkhotSOUP
Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Location: Daegu, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:29 am Post subject: |
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i havent been on in a while but i still have not solved this problem. i guess i have many issues underlying that im not going to get into but what i really want to know now is;
a) what do I have to know about these individuals to make a difference when i call immi?
b) what happens to them after they get caught?
thanks for all your help people! |
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polonius
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| IdontdrinkhotSOUP wrote: |
a) what do I have to know about these individuals to make a difference when i call immi?
b) what happens to them after they get caught?
thanks for all your help people! |
If you want to turn them in, get as much information as you can. Where they work. How long they have been there. What hours they work. Call immigration and give them the information. If they are teaching private lessons, get where and when, and if possible to whom. This is immigrations phone number. 02-2650-6212.
After they get caught, they can face a fine and deportation. The school will also face a fine, probably a lot higher than the teachers will receive.
I am not suggesting that this is the right course of action. But, you wanted the information, so I gave it. Some people here might get angry at you/me for turning in people.
I am not the one doing it, you are. And your conscience has to deal with it. That is, if you care. |
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Snake Doctor
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:27 am Post subject: |
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Just do it man, we need some good drama stories on Daves, been so boring lately. Call, report them, and take some pics!  |
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Mr_Anderson
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
It's amazing how much solidarity there is between Koreans and how little there seems to be between foreigners.
I don't know who these two girls are or what they're doing, but is it really worth giving them a black mark on their passports?
And is it really worth giving the media yet another example for one of their 'foreigner problem' articles?
Morality isn't always akin to blind obedience, ESPECIALLY in Korea. I've seen more unabashed corruption and dodgy corner-cutting here than I ever thought possible. If you turn these people in, chances are you will be turning them in to people who can get away with anything they want to because of who their friends are... and are loved for it.
If you want to be a beacon of morality, do it in a place where your intentions are going to be understood, respected, and have some sort of meaning. Otherwise, you're just hurting people.
But hey... maybe tomorrow you can walk into the police station and tell them you want them to clean up the red light districts that are prominent in every single city and town in Korea. After all--it's the right thing to do. |
Have to agree with Esl Milk on this one. To do with snitching on the 'illegal workers', why be a rat? If they didn't hurt you why turn them in. We all know how unfair the visa system is, give them a break for pity's sake!
If the only reason to turn them in is so the 'legal workers' are 'legally' able to reduce competition (in order to make more money, naturally), then it's a sad world indeed.
I ask this, why isn't cigarette smoking illegal yet (as in, it has been shown that it kills people, yet somehow it's still legal to buy a packet if you're above a certain age)? Both issues are about money and greed and nothing besides.
If only one out of cigarette smoking and teaching English 'illegally' could be legalized, I know which one I'd choose. |
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Grantasmagoria
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:18 am Post subject: |
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If your neighbor is slapping his wife and/or kids around, no need to call the police because he's not hurting you. If a house is on fire, no need to call the fire dept. because well, it's not your house. If a man is selling drugs on a street corner near your... I can make up crap like this all night long. Guess what? Illegal teachers do hurt legal teachers. Illegal teachers are partially responsible for me having to re-submit my degree, get a CRC, take a drug test and jump through extra hoops for my visa.
Do you like illegal immigrants in your home country? Probably not. |
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Teelo
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Wellington, NZ
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| dutchschultz wrote: |
CAN SOMEONE TELL ME THE NUMBER TO REPORT THOSE FOREIGNERS WHO JAYWALK NEAR MY APARTMENT?
THEY ARE DRIVING THE PRICE OF INSURANCE UP WHEN THEY GET HIT BY THOSE PESKY KOREAN DRIVERS.
YOU KNOW THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW AND SO IT IS MY DUTY TO REPORT THEM. |
Lol.
I J-walked near Madu station a few months back, only to see a police car on the other side of the road :blush:
Police dude yelling out the window>> HEY (or whatever equiv they have in korean)
Me>> What?
*runs like hell* |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr_Anderson wrote: |
| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
It's amazing how much solidarity there is between Koreans and how little there seems to be between foreigners.
I don't know who these two girls are or what they're doing, but is it really worth giving them a black mark on their passports?
And is it really worth giving the media yet another example for one of their 'foreigner problem' articles?
Morality isn't always akin to blind obedience, ESPECIALLY in Korea. I've seen more unabashed corruption and dodgy corner-cutting here than I ever thought possible. If you turn these people in, chances are you will be turning them in to people who can get away with anything they want to because of who their friends are... and are loved for it.
If you want to be a beacon of morality, do it in a place where your intentions are going to be understood, respected, and have some sort of meaning. Otherwise, you're just hurting people.
But hey... maybe tomorrow you can walk into the police station and tell them you want them to clean up the red light districts that are prominent in every single city and town in Korea. After all--it's the right thing to do. |
Have to agree with Esl Milk on this one. To do with snitching on the 'illegal workers', why be a rat? If they didn't hurt you why turn them in. We all know how unfair the visa system is, give them a break for pity's sake!
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A few points to consider: (and a few questions as well.)
1. And yet we jumped through the hoops in order to get a proper visa...why should they get a free pass? One of these hoops was a CBC...if they didn't provide one, how do we know they are not criminals and that is the reason they are teaching illegally?
2. More to the point, they are committing fraud. If someone was defrauding an employer back home, would you turn them in? Suppose said employer was a friend of yours. Would you still feel obligated not to be a "snitch"?
3. Grantasmagoria has a point about illegal teachers hurting legal teachers. A large part of the current regulations are based on this problem. Why should I help someone who's been responsible for placing more roadblocks in my way?
4. Foreign illegal teachers are (to a VERY large degree...pun intended) responsible for the negative image of foreign teachers over here. In fact they provide endless fodder for two of the most common allegations used to tar us all with the same brush. Those would be unqualified and illegal. Teachers complain about Koreans calling us those, yet ignore that in a good number of cases, that those allegations are 100% accurate. |
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martypants
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ulsan, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:17 am Post subject: Re: HOW DO I??? |
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| IdontdrinkhotSOUP wrote: |
I know of 2 girls that have been here teaching ILLEGALLY for a bit now and im sick of them. who do I call and what do I say to blow the whistle on them?
thank you |
You really want to make friends and enjoy your stay in Korea, don't you? Lighten up. Are they hurting you with their illegal activity? It's not like you're losing a job because of them. |
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